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warwick thumb neck dive.. help

Where would you move the strap button to even out the weight a little better? Im asking because I have an old Guild B301 that neck dives and is just uncomfortable to play for any period of time (like 20 years =). I didnt realize it so much until I got a couple Fenders and wow, those are so much more comfortable and balanced.
 
When I first grabbed up my '98 Thumb a few months back, I suffered the same way. Though I look at it a bit differently...it's not unbalanced...it's just too balanced. Like you said, it wants to hang horizontal on the strap...no angle at all. :)

Eventually I just set it up by putting my fretting hand out at what would be my normal height and angle, then bringing the body up to roughly match that height. It's a bit higher than I was used to playing (which was E-string at the belt), but I've been fine with it ever since.

This is what I find with my Bolt-On. I've never had the neck dive so severe that I though the head stock was going to crash to floor. It may dive a little bit, but it always wants to hang parallel to the floor.

I use a 4 inch wide homemade strap, that helps support the weight. In between songs I rest my right forearm on the upper bout. This helps keep the neck in position. I also find that it helps to shift the bass a little to the right and hold the neck out a little forward. You can see a picture of me holding the bass this way on my public profile.

I also put my bass down if I need to do anything like get a beer out of the cooler.

On the suggestions of this thread, I may replace the tuners with Ultralights.
 
Where would you move the strap button to even out the weight a little better? Im asking because I have an old Guild B301 that neck dives and is just uncomfortable to play for any period of time (like 20 years =). I didnt realize it so much until I got a couple Fenders and wow, those are so much more comfortable and balanced.

Moving the rear strap button about 3-4" from center kinda changes where the bass hangs. It's not a cure all, but it helps.
 
Whoever designed the Thumb must have flunked high school Physics 101.

Perhaps. I think the demographics of the clientèle has changed since inception. Instead of fusion players looking for some high end zing, they've since been replaced by metal heads. A majority of metal heads will sling the bass really low and a few will sling it high. Virtually all metal heads will wrap their hand around the neck, which sorta makes the thicker profiles more comfortable and neck dive less of an issue. Obviously it's very inefficient playing, but modern metal isn't about discipline and a lot about image.

In my formative bass days, I was also taking classical guitar. I later got a Gary Willis vid, which was oddly very close to my playing style and definitely reinforced how I do things. While hanging the bass high or low may "fix" the neck dive, it changes wrist positions to a much less ergonomic bends. This cuts my speed, efficiency, and stamina by a lot.
 
You haven't seen the countless threads talking about the weight and neck dive? :eyebrow:

While these things sound great, you have to wear shoulder pads to keep from chipping your clavicle - or, like some folks, keep from pinching the nerve in your shoulder that runs down your left arm, numbing your hand.

Warwick should really think about repositioning the strap buttons....or, if you were daring and wanted to take a drill to your bass, you could do that yourself.

Z
 
Hard lesson to learn, but I think that's right.

I have to agree. I've had my BO 5 string for a number of years. It's only with experience that I've learnt what's not so good about it. The main problem being that of balance and ergonomics, all down to the short top horn.

I've tried all manner of straps, included the Comfort Strapp (sp), which although was comfy, didn't offer enought grip to keep the bass at the right angle. I eventually got a 3 inch wide suede backed strap that offered enough grip to keep it at about the right angle.

The neck dive also creates a side issue, where the weight, no matter what strap you use, isn't distributed evenly across your back. My current band plays long function sets of around 2 - 3 hours. The bass isn't heavy per se, but the balance issue got to the stage where I would be in physical pain, esp on my left shoulder for a good day or two after a gig, even after warming up properly before hand. This just isn't right.

The other issue, is that becuase of the short top horn, the first few frets feel that little bit too far away compared to other basses. When you're playing a lot of low end basslines, esp the repetitive ones (think LoveShack), my hand will just cramp up from being in an awkward position. Wearing the bass lower does help here, but then it's in the wrong place for playing other things.

I did think about the hipshot ultralites, this may save a few onces that may help a little bit, but it doesn't solve the fundamental issue of the short top horn. I did also think about a horn extention, but I would be too scared about getting over excited on a gig and ripping it out. Hmmm, maybe if enough of us badgered Warwick, they may design a purpose built, solid extention arm.

Don't get me wrong, I do love my Thumb, and it has a tone to die for and is incredibly easy to play, but I've come to the point of realisation that ergonomically it is just not the right bass for me. To this end, I got a spare bass for functions a while ago, a Yamaha RBX4-A2. This is a super lightweight, well balanced bass, that whilst not in the same league tone-wise, still has a good, solid, more 'fendery' tone, that fits in well with the function work we do. I switch to this when the Thumb just becomes too much to handle, and depending on set order, the Thumb just works better for some styles and tunes.

But, I still want a higher quality 'main' bass, something that I can be confident on playing a whole night with. I tried out different basses (always try them out with a strap!) and after much consideration have ordered a Yamaha Attitude II. I was tempted by a Corvette FNA Jazzman, but the sound although versatile, wasn't quite right for me. The Attitude on the other hand, has the growl I like, even if it is different from the Warwick, and the pickup configuration should make for one versatile intrument. That neck woofer should really fill out what I've always felt was missing from the Thumb, a deep, solid low end. And it has the mid range that I love with the Thumb, although maybe not a glassy a high end, but I'm all about mids and bass, not into zingy highs (not a slapper, oo-er). I'm also aware the Attitude has rather large neck, but hey, I've been playing a Warwick 5 string for 7 years, so I should be fine!

So in summary. I think that even if you love the tone, and feel, if something about it isn't working for you and is causing your major problems, you really need to look elsewhere for your perfect bass.

Apologies for the long winded response, but I felt my experiences are worth sharing.
 
Perhaps. I think the demographics of the clientèle has changed since inception. Instead of fusion players looking for some high end zing, they've since been replaced by metal heads. A majority of metal heads will sling the bass really low and a few will sling it high. Virtually all metal heads will wrap their hand around the neck, which sorta makes the thicker profiles more comfortable and neck dive less of an issue. Obviously it's very inefficient playing, but modern metal isn't about discipline and a lot about image.

Respectfully, These are broad generalizations. Not all Metal bassists play Warwicks, not all Warwick players are Metal bassists. Not all Metalheads are brainless oafs.
 
Respectfully, These are broad generalizations. Not all Metal bassists play Warwicks, not all Warwick players are Metal bassists. Not all Metalheads are brainless oafs.

Generalizations? Yup. Accurate enough that it's not entirely wrong. Heck, generalizations sell basses. Market to mostly metal heads, sell to metal heads. Fender markets to vintage people. It's simply how not only put the right basses in the right hands, but to sell the snot out of 'em.
 
here's what I did to my Thumb to make it playable for me:

1) replace original tuners with Gotoh GB350's - the lightest bass tuner you can get. (took off 1/4lb off headstock on my 5-string)
-can buy these from allparts.com

2) Added a 1" upper horn extension using a brass bushing and long screw.

3) moved the bridge side strap pin up 2" inches

4) added 1/4 lb of lead weight to the electronics cavity to help with balance issue.

Bass is about the same weight as stock (9.5lbs) but the weight distribution is much better. :hyper:

Good luck.

T
 
Where would you move the strap button to even out the weight a little better? Im asking because I have an old Guild B301 that neck dives and is just uncomfortable to play for any period of time (like 20 years =). I didnt realize it so much until I got a couple Fenders and wow, those are so much more comfortable and balanced.
I have the same bass, and while I love the sound I will not play it standing up. Great studio bass while sitting, the neck is awesome and it sounds excellent, but I just cannot deal with the neck dive. I tried moving the button to behind the neck instead of the top horn, didn't help. After I get settled with the rest of my gear, I might bust out the toolbox and go crazy on it, but for right now it's an at-home practice bass only.

:(