We (Source Audio) released Neuro 3 too early. We're sorry!

[OneNut]

OK so I had a really positive wall of text that I wrote up earlier today and was going to post. It was very positive to Source Audio and the sheer power and possibilities of Neuro 3, the One Platform and the Ultrawave. Basically how I believed in the platform.

And then Neuro 3 on Android just broke me. I tried a different cable - it was slow, extremely painful and it would sort-of work, but not well. You have to basically workaround to get the screen to update. I unplugged and used the cable I had first been using. Pedal doesn't link, so delete it and try to add it. Pedal added successfully, but doesn't show up in the pedals list. Force stop of the app, restarting the phone and pedal don't work. Go back to the original cable and still the same problem: the app says the pedal is added and it's not there.

I'm done - the one connection workaround suggest to me by support is no longer working. Pedal is getting factory reset and going away.

But for giggles, go grab my iPad Pro, install the app, and try the pedal (with same cables). The pedal connects properly and it's 100% perfection. It's fast, snappy, screen updates instantly and all the data load problems I've seen are non-existent. Attach the pedal to my PC to do the factory reset and I see the exact same amazing performance.

I don't know what is going on with Neuro 3 on Android, but I can't believe that performance difference. I'm on a top tier phone (Samsung S24+) and to see that performance difference is mind blowing. Tap a preset from the pedal and the screen updates instantly on the iPad; on the S24+ out of 20 times, it did twice, once in about 5 second and the other after 30, the rest it never did. It's pretty clear there is a problem on Android.

 

[rsmith601]

OK so I had a really positive wall of text that I wrote up earlier today and was going to post. It was very positive to Source Audio and the sheer power and possibilities of Neuro 3, the One Platform and the Ultrawave. Basically how I believed in the platform.

And then Neuro 3 on Android just broke me. I tried a different cable - it was slow, extremely painful and it would sort-of work, but not well. You have to basically workaround to get the screen to update. I unplugged and used the cable I had first been using. Pedal doesn't link, so delete it and try to add it. Pedal added successfully, but doesn't show up in the pedals list. Force stop of the app, restarting the phone and pedal don't work. Go back to the original cable and still the same problem: the app says the pedal is added and it's not there.

I'm done - the one connection workaround suggest to me by support is no longer working. Pedal is getting factory reset and going away.

But for giggles, go grab my iPad Pro, install the app, and try the pedal (with same cables). The pedal connects properly and it's 100% perfection. It's fast, snappy, screen updates instantly and all the data load problems I've seen are non-existent. Attach the pedal to my PC to do the factory reset and I see the exact same amazing performance.

I don't know what is going on with Neuro 3 on Android, but I can't believe that performance difference. I'm on a top tier phone (Samsung S24+) and to see that performance difference is mind blowing. Tap a preset from the pedal and the screen updates instantly on the iPad; on the S24+ out of 20 times, it did twice, once in about 5 second and the other after 30, the rest it never did. It's pretty clear there is a problem on Android.

Thank you for sharing this!! I am sending to the development team right now.

Android is particularly challenging. The standards are all over the place. I have a Pixel 5A and an 8A. Works fine for me. We have a collection of phones for testing, and keep buying more! We will track this down.

The good news is that you have been able to experience how things should be!

 

[GMC]

Hi Rick, The Ultrawave is a complex beast for sure. It's also insanely versatile and there isn't anything else like it on the market. The closest funnily enough comes from Source Audio in the Aftershock. That is a far more user friendly pedal that is realtively straight forwards to use, but can go fairly deep dive.
When I first recived my UW, I was fortunatly enough to get one of the first 100, which had very nice custom graphics. I was a little over-whelmed by the complexity and concepts of the pedal. But I was more over whelmed by the C4 because I didn't know much about subtractive synthesis than a 20 min play with a Moog Prodigy over 30 years ago. The C4 is a far more complex pedal. I've build, modded and designed a fair amount of analogue dirt pedal circuits...so it was fairly easy for me to understanding it's logic / work flow.
I first approached the UW as a preset machine. I took patches that sounded useful from the Neuro Community and tweaked them. I took them apart to see how and why they worked and then I started to understand what it was all about.

Every dirt pedal has a input buffer, pre or post EQ, a level of inbuilt compression and a clipping circuit. It's the clipping circuit that does the dirt and the UW has a big list of types of Clipping circuit types. Source Audio have released some guides (and patches) that map various known pedals to the clipping types. From this point there's usually another buffer and a output EQ. This is essentially all a dirt pedal is...regardless of OD, fuzz, distortion etc. If you look up a Dam Ezekiel, you will see that it can dial in different analogue clipping circuits at the turn of a knob.

Then there's the morphing functions and the band splitting options. Plus there's also options to fade / blend between the left and right mono channels for even more flexibility.

The UW is capable for some very extream and weird sounds...but it is a dirt pedal at heart and that's true of a lot of heavy duty dirt pedals and careful dialling in can produce a lot of very sweet or unique dirt effects. To date, I have mimicked a number of dirt patches from my old Aftershock. I mimicked a rat, OD and a Muff. I also on the Titan II fuzz, the woolly mammoth and with some help of the guys here, I took on the legendary Brassmaster (with all the switch options mapped to different patches). I've even nailed the octave voice of the 3 leaf DOOM II pedal.

If you think you can understand the UW in a tired late night knob twiddle...think again. This pedal deserves your attention and learning. It will reward you like no other dirt pedal can. It's a lamborgini and want's to be driven by someone who understands track driving...if you drive it like a Mustang...it's going to get out of hand pretty quickly.

It's a bit like owning a dog...it's not just fro Christmas, it's a thing for life. I've owned my UV for nearly 3 years and there's a ton of features i've not yet had the time to delve into...THANKS ROB for sharing the Tremolo video. That's an dark corner of this pedal for me and I'm keen to explore more!

If you want help in creating something specific, I'm more than happy to help / guide you. If this pedal isn't for you then maky take a look at the Aftershock. It's an older model, but it's a pretty sweet pedal.

 

[Rick Penrose]

Hi Rick, The Ultrawave is a complex beast for sure. It's also insanely versatile and there isn't anything else like it on the market. The closest funnily enough comes from Source Audio in the Aftershock. That is a far more user friendly pedal that is realtively straight forwards to use, but can go fairly deep dive.
When I first recived my UW, I was fortunatly enough to get one of the first 100, which had very nice custom graphics. I was a little over-whelmed by the complexity and concepts of the pedal. But I was more over whelmed by the C4 because I didn't know much about subtractive synthesis than a 20 min play with a Moog Prodigy over 30 years ago. The C4 is a far more complex pedal. I've build, modded and designed a fair amount of analogue dirt pedal circuits...so it was fairly easy for me to understanding it's logic / work flow.
I first approached the UW as a preset machine. I took patches that sounded useful from the Neuro Community and tweaked them. I took them apart to see how and why they worked and then I started to understand what it was all about.

Every dirt pedal has a input buffer, pre or post EQ, a level of inbuilt compression and a clipping circuit. It's the clipping circuit that does the dirt and the UW has a big list of types of Clipping circuit types. Source Audio have released some guides (and patches) that map various known pedals to the clipping types. From this point there's usually another buffer and a output EQ. This is essentially all a dirt pedal is...regardless of OD, fuzz, distortion etc. If you look up a Dam Ezekiel, you will see that it can dial in different analogue clipping circuits at the turn of a knob.

Then there's the morphing functions and the band splitting options. Plus there's also options to fade / blend between the left and right mono channels for even more flexibility.

The UW is capable for some very extream and weird sounds...but it is a dirt pedal at heart and that's true of a lot of heavy duty dirt pedals and careful dialling in can produce a lot of very sweet or unique dirt effects. To date, I have mimicked a number of dirt patches from my old Aftershock. I mimicked a rat, OD and a Muff. I also on the Titan II fuzz, the woolly mammoth and with some help of the guys here, I took on the legendary Brassmaster (with all the switch options mapped to different patches). I've even nailed the octave voice of the 3 leaf DOOM II pedal.

If you think you can understand the UW in a tired late night knob twiddle...think again. This pedal deserves your attention and learning. It will reward you like no other dirt pedal can. It's a lamborgini and want's to be driven by someone who understands track driving...if you drive it like a Mustang...it's going to get out of hand pretty quickly.

It's a bit like owning a dog...it's not just fro Christmas, it's a thing for life. I've owned my UV for nearly 3 years and there's a ton of features i've not yet had the time to delve into...THANKS ROB for sharing the Tremolo video. That's an dark corner of this pedal for me and I'm keen to explore more!

If you want help in creating something specific, I'm more than happy to help / guide you. If this pedal isn't for you then maky take a look at the Aftershock. It's an older model, but it's a pretty sweet pedal.

GMC,
Thanks for sharing this…I was actually just looking at the Aftershock as an alternative. I am not one to give up easily on things but there are only so many hours that I can devote to dialing in my gear. Without a doubt your are correct that the UW is very capable. I have not been able to crack the code yet.

Thanks,
Rick

 

[Billyears IV]

Although the UW can be a complex and at times, a baffling beast, I tend to get more use out of it on a simpler basis.

8 band distortions, morphing, trem, lfo etc are cool but not necessary to use a great deal with bass, to get 'useful' sounds. I like to experiment and assess community presets but at the end of the day, don't have much outlet for the more wacky sounds bandwise. They can get lost in a mix. Although some are cool for instru breaks, with using an expression pedal.

Try running some basic distortion ch1 into clean ch2, with 2,3 o 4 band (you can assign the frequencies for these). Then (with bass line on a Looper) tweak distortion levels, comp & eq to find the 'flavour' of choice. I particularly enjoy edge of breakup, not full distortions.

Where the UW also really shines is in conjunction with other pedals. Providing either clean /dirty boost, extra bit of comp or eq gives that extra edge/refinement to some analogue pedals - mark bass compressore and origin effects SV preamp. (plus my Aguilar TH500). The UW can just make these pedals sound even better, tighter, more growl, or hint of OD, scooped or mid pushed, brighter or deeper etc. This where I get the best use of UW, for adjusting bass in a mix or room space. That's why it will always be on my board.

Also for giving bit of OD textures to some C4 presets is super cool.

So, for my own purposes, the UW is a sort of 'sound sculpting' tool.

 

[GMC]

GMC,
Thanks for sharing this…I was actually just looking at the Aftershock as an alternative. I am not one to give up easily on things but there are only so many hours that I can devote to dialing in my gear. Without a doubt your are correct that the UW is very capable. I have not been able to crack the code yet.

Thanks,
Rick

The Aftershock is a much more intuative experiance. You get 3 patches in the Green zone and three more in the red zone. Output volume, grit / dirt, and two tone knob controls. These two tone knobs can be assigned a number of different ways, such as blend, bass boost / cut, treble Boost cut etc. Personally, I found more milage in assigning them to bass and treble (cut / boost) than any other feature. I then did this across all 6 patches. Then I would load up my fav 6 patches from the community, level them all out so they are the same gain and use the pedal as a 6 dirts in a small box with a common bass & treble controls.
You can get funky with the stereo / 2 channel routing and stack different dirt engines and parallel / series them or push them to different amps with different dirt on each channel. But this can get complicated and the joy of the Aftershock is it's relative simplicity.

 

[Billyears IV]

This thread's gone quiet. How is N3 performing atm?

Was there a separate N3 improvement thread running? Can't remember or find one but seem to think there might have been.....??

Please advise, thanks.

 

[stubbsonic]

I'm going to hold off on using V3. There's nothing I need in the new version, and a few things I need in the old version that were abandoned in the new version.

I'll wait until more stuff is fixed. For now, I'm able to run the old version on Mac and an android tablet running an APK.

 

[5stringedfrenzy]

it's still acting funny for me, tried again last week. TBF it is a beta release, so if your gigs aren't a testing environment (mine def. are not) then V2 is still the safest bet. I don't run the beta version of anything else on stage so it follows N3 is still for bedroom use or folks w/o critical gigs

 

[stubbsonic]

There is another Neuro improvement thread. I even think improvement might be in the subject line.

I don’t like referring to this as a beta or public beta as far as the iOS version is concerned. Beta implies a voluntary agreement. When the previous version is removed from the iOS store, and no roll-back is possible, the proper label is either Forced Beta, or just a broken version.

I don’t mean to keep twisting the knife. But is there really no way for old and new to co-exist in the App Store?

 

[Nephilymbass]

As a lot of you probably know, we recently released NEURO 3, the newly rebuilt version of our effects editing software. Unfortunately, NEURO 3 got off to a very shaky start. We are acutely aware that our under-performing software really frustrated a lot of new and longtime Source Audio pedal owners. The truth is, we are guilty of rushing out Neuro 3 well before it had been adequately tested, and we apologize to anyone who had a bad experience. We have always had a great relationship with the TalkBass community, so we feel it’s imperative that we let all of you know that we are working tirelessly to right this situation.

As a first step, we are happy to announce that on August 26 we released a new update for NEURO 3 (versions 3.0.20 desktop & 3.5.5 mobile). It basically fixes all the major issues that people were having with the initial release. You can download the updated version of Neuro on our website -Neuro 3: Public Beta. If anybody has any questions or concerns, feel free to ask us about it here. Niko, Dave, Jeff, and I will be monitoring this post and give you an answer as soon as possible. You can also email us at [email protected].

Again, we are sorry if you downloaded the initial version of NEURO 3 and it didn’t work well for you. There are more updates coming, each with new improvements. Moving forward we promise to make ourselves exceedingly available to anybody who has questions or needs some assistance.

I’m a c4 user. I keep my presets the same for months at a time so I didn’t even notice. SA has always been good though so I’m not surprised they are on top of the issue

 

[stubbsonic]

I ended up buying a used Android mini-tablet and will side-load the previous version of Neuro onto that. I should be able to run that without too much trouble for the foreseeable future.

I'm curious if the new Mobile Neuro will ever be able to use TRS data transmission to send preset selections to multiple pedals (in a similar way that the hub does). In other words, since I can send signals to change presets on one pedal at a time, would it ever be possible to send a batch of preset-change messages to multiple pedals via Neuro (from a smart device)?

 

[rsmith601]

I ended up buying a used Android mini-tablet and will side-load the previous version of Neuro onto that. I should be able to run that without too much trouble for the foreseeable future.

I'm curious if the new Mobile Neuro will ever be able to use TRS data transmission to send preset selections to multiple pedals (in a similar way that the hub does). In other words, since I can send signals to change presets on one pedal at a time, would it ever be possible to send a batch of preset-change messages to multiple pedals via Neuro (from a smart device)?

Neuro data gets sent down a chain of pedals using TRS on in and out 2. One phone can control an infinite number of SA pedals at one time using this approach. We have supported this since day one. The only exception is Artifakt. We could not support this.

 

[stubbsonic]

I have 6 pedals in my chain, all connected via TRS daisy chain. I’m asking if Neuro mobile might be able to allow me to combine preset selection for all 6. Tap one field and Neuro sends out preset selections for all 6, similar to how the hub works.

 

[rsmith601]

I have 6 pedals in my chain, all connected via TRS daisy chain. I’m asking if Neuro mobile might be able to allow me to combine preset selection for all 6. Tap one field and Neuro sends out preset selections for all 6, similar to how the hub works.

If we do that, it would need to be USB. TRS would be a nightmare. Note that phone companies control TRS. There are no specs or standards across all the different phones. When some random Android phone has awful TRS audio, you all blame us when it does not work and we need to spend sometimes hundreds of hours creating a special solution just for that cheap phone. Is that really what you want us to work on??

 

[stubbsonic]

Forget I asked.

 

[joepo]

Well, looks like I have to give up on the C4. I had built up a nice library of 40 + presets, had gotten into the deep editing in Neuro, had the MIDI program change thing happening with a Disaster Area Micro Pro... then the new, improved Neuro 3 hit and.....
> Had trouble reinstalling on my (Windows) desktop (where it had worked just fine). Tried to download the fixer / cleaner file for my desktop with no luck. Tried making an exception to download the "unfamiliar Source Audio file" - no luck.
> Downloaded, installed and connected to Neuro 3 to a phone and TWO tablets - all android. I was able to log in, able to select my pedal and even able to SEE MY LYBRARY of saved patches with the pedal connected but NO PATCH CHANGE and no way to reload / burn my library patches to the pedal.
> Finally I thought I could at least modify and save the six factory presets. Nope. When I held down the footswitch to save, no blinking light, nothing saved, even after a full factory reset & repeating the process (as described in your videos)
Done wasting time on this. Into the trash it goes

 

[5stringedfrenzy]

Well, looks like I have to give up on the C4. I had built up a nice library of 40 + presets, had gotten into the deep editing in Neuro, had the MIDI program change thing happening with a Disaster Area Micro Pro... then the new, improved Neuro 3 hit and.....
> Had trouble reinstalling on my (Windows) desktop (where it had worked just fine). Tried to download the fixer / cleaner file for my desktop with no luck. Tried making an exception to download the "unfamiliar Source Audio file" - no luck.
> Downloaded, installed and connected to Neuro 3 to a phone and TWO tablets - all android. I was able to log in, able to select my pedal and even able to SEE MY LYBRARY of saved patches with the pedal connected but NO PATCH CHANGE and no way to reload / burn my library patches to the pedal.
> Finally I thought I could at least modify and save the six factory presets. Nope. When I held down the footswitch to save, no blinking light, nothing saved, even after a full factory reset & repeating the process (as described in your videos)
Done wasting time on this. Into the trash it goes

have you tried going back to Neuro 2 on the desktop? My stuff doesn't like the new version either, but everything works as it did with Neuro 2 installed.

 

[rsmith601]

Well, looks like I have to give up on the C4. I had built up a nice library of 40 + presets, had gotten into the deep editing in Neuro, had the MIDI program change thing happening with a Disaster Area Micro Pro... then the new, improved Neuro 3 hit and.....
> Had trouble reinstalling on my (Windows) desktop (where it had worked just fine). Tried to download the fixer / cleaner file for my desktop with no luck. Tried making an exception to download the "unfamiliar Source Audio file" - no luck.
> Downloaded, installed and connected to Neuro 3 to a phone and TWO tablets - all android. I was able to log in, able to select my pedal and even able to SEE MY LYBRARY of saved patches with the pedal connected but NO PATCH CHANGE and no way to reload / burn my library patches to the pedal.
> Finally I thought I could at least modify and save the six factory presets. Nope. When I held down the footswitch to save, no blinking light, nothing saved, even after a full factory reset & repeating the process (as described in your videos)
Done wasting time on this. Into the trash it goes

We have worked extremely hard to make sure all bugs have been eliminated, and this sort of thing does not happen. Sending you a DM right now.

 

[Dave Hill]

Well, looks like I have to give up on the C4. I had built up a nice library of 40 + presets, had gotten into the deep editing in Neuro, had the MIDI program change thing happening with a Disaster Area Micro Pro... then the new, improved Neuro 3 hit and.....
> Had trouble reinstalling on my (Windows) desktop (where it had worked just fine). Tried to download the fixer / cleaner file for my desktop with no luck. Tried making an exception to download the "unfamiliar Source Audio file" - no luck.
> Downloaded, installed and connected to Neuro 3 to a phone and TWO tablets - all android. I was able to log in, able to select my pedal and even able to SEE MY LYBRARY of saved patches with the pedal connected but NO PATCH CHANGE and no way to reload / burn my library patches to the pedal.
> Finally I thought I could at least modify and save the six factory presets. Nope. When I held down the footswitch to save, no blinking light, nothing saved, even after a full factory reset & repeating the process (as described in your videos)
Done wasting time on this. Into the trash it goes

I feel your pain.
I have my C4 along with a Disaster Area Micro working fine with about 15 saved presets, and I love it. I am TERRIFIED, however, to connect the pedal to my phone as I feel it will all crash, as it has before. I never could get Neuro to work on my computer.

My whole experience has been frustrating. If it keeps working as-is, I’ll keep it rolling. If I lose everything again, in the trash it goes.