We've Glorified Weakness

[BAG]

Yep....children soccer leagues that do not keep score and everybody gets a trophy.

And then when they get into the real world so many of them can't cope and become depressed or angry because the reality is that in life there ARE winners and losers.
The winners are usually the ones who work hard, make compromises in life in order to get where they want to etc etc and then get over-taxed to pay for the others, who whinge that life isn't fair and that the government owe them a living and why can't I be rich like those other people (who are in reality just comfortably off).

 

[One Drop]

I think there is undue attention given to the few idiots who espouse the kind of nonsense linked in this thread, and to the busybodies in public service and the truly disconnected from reality in academia who split similar nonsense.

But I don't think it's any big harmful trend, and when it comes to children, I don't believe making everything a competition is beneficial, even though it might have some logic when preparing people for their adult lives in a very competitive society such as the U.S.

 

[blue4]

I think there is undue attention given to the few idiots who espouse the kind of nonsense linked in this thread, and to the busybodies in public service and the truly disconnected from reality in academia who split similar nonsense.

But I don't think it's any big harmful trend, and when it comes to children, I don't believe making everything a competition is beneficial, even though it might have some logic when preparing people for their adult lives in a very competitive society such as the U.S.

I completely agree. You have the people being referred to here, the ones who insist on fairness in all things. The soccer kids who all get trophies. The whiners in the workplace. They are an annoyance to all. But there is almost an industry built up now for people to whine about the whiners. Internet memes, bumper stickers, soccer moms who complain that little league soccer rules are what's destroying society. That's not what is alarming to me in little league. It's playing tournaments during the week until 10:00 pm when your kids supposed to be sleeping for school. Every young kid getting a trophy is not the problem, or even a problem. It's the hyper competitive, hyper defensive, hyper active parent who's whining all day about "liberal trophy rules" and who allow their 12 yr olds to have 40 game seasons thru school who are the true menace to society.

While I agree people like those psychologists referred to are way off base, i don't believe their views are nearly as mainstream as being let on.

I guess while I get annoyed as anyone else about the complaints people have, I also realize the school bullying and the like is decreased tremendously due to complaints like these. The education experience my kids get, the environment they learn in is far better than what I had. It may not seem on the surface that we're preparing our kids correctly, to compete. But we are. Just ask the football coach from a 2A high school who drills his kids like they have a chance at state.

 

[yodedude2]

time for some mpfc quotes:

"I'd like to complain about people who hold things up by complaining about people that complain!"

“I think that all good, right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that people in this country are fed up with being told that people in this country are fed up with being sick and tired. I certainly am not, and I'm sick and tired of being told that I am!”

(oh by the way, whining about whining is not necessarily hypocritical, it's ironic.)

 

[20db pad]

The three most abused words in the English language:

1. Diva
2. Genius
3. Hero

We've had TB members that self-declared themselves #2 and #3, while truly only being #1. Not so much now thanks to the ban hammer, but still a spectacle to behold.

 

[blue4]

And then when they get into the real world so many of them can't cope and become depressed or angry because the reality is that in life there ARE winners and losers.
The winners are usually the ones who work hard, make compromises in life in order to get where they want to etc etc and then get over-taxed to pay for the others, who whinge that life isn't fair and that the government owe them a living and why can't I be rich like those other people (who are in reality just comfortably off).

I think this is one of those overly simplistic "Facebook rant" type of statements. To me you complain about the symptoms rather than the actual problems. The rich and middle class spend way to much time worrying about whether the poor are costing them money and not enough time wondering why employee raises and benefits are shrinking while profits and productivity are greatly increased. It's not the taxes and the poor that are cutting into your paychecks, it's the companies you toil for 60 hours a week. While the "winner's win and losers cry" talk makes for great break room rants, it doesn't change the fact that there are 300 million people in this country and there aren't enough "winner" jobs to go around. I've worked for my employer 15 years. We've increased to 50% market share, grown profits by 2 billion, and increased stock price over $100 per share in 15 years. The average starting white collar needed an associate's degree and received a low middle class wage with bonuses for extra days worked, free health care, an pension, and good vacation. Today a bachelors is required, master's preferred. They make less than me (skilled trade) get no overtime compensation, no pension, no match in the 401k, gutted health benefits and worse vacation. And this is not an uncommon story.

To me, this is the real threat to my children's ability to make a living, not whether some inner city mom bought steaks on her Link card.

 

[petrus61]

I think there is undue attention given to the few idiots who espouse the kind of nonsense linked in this thread, and to the busybodies in public service and the truly disconnected from reality in academia who split similar nonsense.

But I don't think it's any big harmful trend, and when it comes to children, I don't believe making everything a competition is beneficial, even though it might have some logic when preparing people for their adult lives in a very competitive society such as the U.S.

Last week as I was going into a local supermarket, there were a couple of young girls standing outside with cans collecting money for their soccer team. I always let them know that I'll catch them with a few dollars on my way out of the store. On my way out, they asked a male adult walking in of he'd like to donate.

Man: "What team/school do you play for?"

Girls: "------ Elementary Shool"

Man: "Ha! I'm not giving you a dime! You're our rivals!"

The guy literally walked away shaking his head, not even leaving a penny for the KIDS that were trying to raise money for their sports team. This example perfectly sums up the kind of idiocy that "competition" can stir up when it's perverted into something that it isn't. A grown man did this...can you imagine how he's raising his "tough" kids?

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Point is we have a right to be proud we served, but some of us go way overboard on just how special we were.

While I haven't served, I am very appreciative of those who have - even if they served in wars and military actions with which I personally did not agree. But there are definitely some who take it to extreme. And there are those who seem to have a literal condescension towards those who have been civilians all of their lives. In my purely anecdotal experience, those service people seem to be overrepresented in a certain branch of the military, at least here in America. I suspect that has a lot to do with how they're socialized in that particular branch as compared to the other branches, but that's just speculation (and I'm not saying everybody from that branch is that way).

More on topic, I don't get too vibed by the "everybody gets a trophy" culture, because frankly, the real world is not a meritocracy either.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Last week as I was going into a local supermarket, there were a couple of young girls standing outside with cans collecting money for their soccer team. I always let them know that I'll catch them with a few dollars on my way out of the store. On my way out, they asked a male adult walking in of he'd like to donate.

Man: "What team/school do you play for?"

Girls: "------ Elementary Shool"

Man: "Ha! I'm not giving you a dime! You're our rivals!"

The guy literally walked away shaking his head, not even leaving a penny for the KIDS that were trying to raise money for their sports team. This example perfectly sums up the kind of idiocy that "competition" can stir up when it's perverted into something that it isn't. A grown man did this...can you imagine how he's raising his "tough" kids?

The "elementary and high school sports is REAL SERIOUS BIDNESS" hegemony is something that tomes can be written about. One of my favorite South Park episodes is the little league one where Randy keeps getting into fist fights with other parents, because it just deconstructs that phenomenon so well.

 

[bachlover]

I hope that no one here misunderstands me. I'm a 60 year old white guy who lives in one of the 'reddest' counties in America who is wearing a "Bernie Sanders For President, 2016" bumper sticker on the arse end of his truck...Now, lets all go out to the music room and listen to some Waylon!

I don't think Hank done it this way

 

[Muddslide]

It's not just America. It feels like the fastest growing industry in Australia is the grievance industry. Pathetic do-gooders finding any small thing someone had said or done and taking offense on behalf of some perveived victim group. It really is sickening.

I think this is part of the matter: people getting offended, so they feel they have the right to ban everything or keep others from pursuing interests.

So many things can offend somebody for all kinds of reasons. Does thos mean we should restrict or outlaw anything someone complains about?

I dont like gangster rap. Do I want it banned? No...I just don't listen to it. Whatever other people do is none of my business as long as they aren't hurting anyone or impinging on the rights of others.

This whole paradigm of "Oh I am so offended by that!"

Fft. Who cares? Put on your big boy undies and deal with it, then move on and go about your business.

 

[One Drop]

I think this is part of the matter: people getting offended, so they feel they have the right to ban everything or keep others from pursuing interests.

So many things can offend somebody for all kinds of reasons. Does thos mean we should restrict or outlaw anything someone complains about?

I dont like gangster rap. Do I want it banned? No...I just don't listen to it. Whatever other people do is none of my business as long as they aren't hurting anyone or impinging on the rights of others.

This whole paradigm of "Oh I am so offended by that!"

Fft. Who cares? Put on your big boy undies and deal with it, then move on and go about your business.

Yes, about freedom of expression.

But I've heard the same argument used against people who are offended by racist comments and hate speech against certain groups of people and it just doesn't wash.

 

[Jeff K]

But let me ask this question: If a serviceman is wounded by, say, an IED while riding in a Humvee from one place to another, is he a hero? Another way of putting it is, does a Purple Heart automatically make you a hero?

Excellent point. And IMO, no and no. It doesn't preclude the possibility that they MIGHT be a hero, but certainly not "automatically". At least the Purple Heart question. Some folks have received them for less than heroic actions. And the guy/girl wounded by an IED? Were they wounded? Absolutely. Wounded while participating in a heroic action? Not really.

It's possible, of course, if they're hauling tail into an area to rescue other wounded soldiers, etc.; but not if they're just driving from Point A to Point B. It's sad, unfortunate, and Purple Heart-worthy; but not necessarily heroic.

 

[FilterFunk]

We've glorified thin skin for so long everyone is constantly trotting out some new new brand of trauma or grievance.

I swear, I can't go anywhere without reading something, seeing something or watching someone complain to or to constantly attempt to be a victim. It's popular to find something to dislike, and to use your voice to "stand up" to the offender, thereby boosting yourself up in the process and becoming your own "hero" of sorts.

I'm sick of it and all of the feeble namby pamby's out there. It's disgusting. Sack up America.

/RANT

I completely get this, but it ignores what led us to our current state: Racism, sexism, discrimination, unfair labor/workplace practices, grievous inequities in the criminal justice system, children's rights ignored, etc. Of course, these things are still with us, but not to the same degree (thank goodness!). A lot of people thought of the civil rights and women's rights workers of the '60s as "whiners." Many in America do need to "sack up," but there are still many things worth fighting for. Hopefully we'll choose our battles wisely and not succumb to frivolousness.

I agree that it's gone too far in the other direction, but let's not forget that what came before wasn't all great.

 

[tastybasslines]

I completely get this, but it ignores what led us to our current state: Racism, sexism, discrimination, unfair labor/workplace practices, grievous inequities in the criminal justice system, etc., children's rights ignored, etc. Of course, these things are still with us, but not to the same degree (thank goodness!). A lot of people thought of the civil rights and women's rights workers of the '60s as whiners. Many in America do need to "sack up," but there are still many things worth fighting for. Hopefully we'll choose our battles wisely and not succumb to frivolousness.

I agree that it's gone too far in the other direction, but let's not forget that what came before wasn't all great.

Excellent perspective.

 

[FilterFunk]

when it comes to children, I don't believe making everything a competition is beneficial

Agreed, although I like the idea of participation certificates for non-competitive sports leagues as opposed to trophies.

Another thing - some of the kids who may only play sports for fun may be uber-competitive in academic pursuits. You don't have to be tough in everything to be very successful in certain things.

 

[Munjibunga]

The rich and middle class spend way to much time worrying about whether the poor are costing them money.

... for example, Bill Gates and Warren Buffett. I look around my neighborhood and see hospitals, homeless shelters, business schools, engineering schools, arts complexes, and more with rich peoples' names on them. You have to be rich to give $50 million or $1 billion to charity. Just those two guys have pledged to give away at least half their wealth. That would amount to about $75 billion (with a "b") given to charity. In Gates' case he gives enormous sums to education. I don't have any issue with rich people. Maybe if I had worked a little harder (or gone to work for Qualcomm) I could have been one of them. But I didn't and I'm not. No problem.

 

[Munjibunga]

I completely get this, but it ignores what led us to our current state: Racism, sexism, discrimination, unfair labor/workplace practices, grievous inequities in the criminal justice system, etc., children's rights ignored, etc. Of course, these things are still with us, but not to the same degree (thank goodness!). A lot of people thought of the civil rights and women's rights workers of the '60s as whiners. Many in America do need to "sack up," but there are still many things worth fighting for. Hopefully we'll choose our battles wisely and not succumb to frivolousness.

I agree that it's gone too far in the other direction, but let's not forget that what came before wasn't all great.

I was there, and they/we did a lot more than whine.

 

[the harp unstrung]

You need a license to drive a car but any idiot is allowed to rear children......

...an oldie but a really, really goody...said the Teacher who has been faced with the mess that some parents have made...

 

[the harp unstrung]

OK...it's time for me to go back and read this thread from the beginning...there's ALOT of stuff going on here... "Take Time For Paradise"... Bart Giamantti