We've Glorified Weakness

[BAG]

I'm fine with protesting and even whining. Looting and burning, not so much. Those types of activities harm the ostensible cause more than advance it.

Why is it whenever I see rioting and looting on TV, which initially started as a protest, that those doing the looting generally look very happy with themselves with a huge grin on their face as they walk out of someone's business they have just destroyed. And it's usually a small business owned and run by a local person who may be similar to the looter, other than the fact that the business owner works hard for their money while the looters sprout off about being owed something.

 

[cheapbasslovin]

You see what you want to see. Some are getting recognition and for work they didn't do. Others are whining that they aren't getting their due. But at the same time, others are working their @$$3S off and not looking for any recognition or wanting it.

There's people that need recognition and not getting it. There's people that need help and aren't getting it. There's people that don't need help demanding it, etc. What you see simply identifies your bias, nothing more IMO.

There is one thing in this thread I specifically want to address and that is the kids getting trophies.

Yep....children soccer leagues that do not keep score and everybody gets a trophy.

Is this what this thread is about to you? Kids have been getting trophies since I was a kid and that makes at least 30 years.

Most of the kids I coach only kind of want to play soccer. It is our goal (mine and the parents) to make it fun for them. Trophies make it more fun. Kids aren't idiots. They know the score, and they know if they've won or not. We don't keep score because we're in a rec league and we're not tracking records. If their parents have taught them ANYTHING they understand a trophy in such a situation is not a mark of an accomplishment, but a remembrance of the season they played.

I'm trying to teach kids to become better players and enjoy the game, not teach them to exalt in wins and be destroyed by losses. There are other leagues for that, and if that's how you want your kids coached you can send them there. /muchlongerrantthanIexpected

 

[Munjibunga]

Why is it whenever I see rioting and looting on TV, which initially started as a protest, that those doing the looting generally look very happy with themselves with a huge grin on their face as they walk out of someone's business they have just destroyed. And it's usually a small business owned and run by a local person who may be similar to the looter, other than the fact that the business owner works hard for their money while the looters sprout off about being owed something.

I don't know. You tell me.

 

[Munjibunga]

I agree completely. I wasn't trying to make an argument otherwise. Simply saying that there exists a large group people who are very vocal decrying people and programs who they think are harming them and their prosperity, but are actually in more danger from other things.

... like a bubble bursting.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Why is it whenever I see rioting and looting on TV, which initially started as a protest, that those doing the looting generally look very happy with themselves with a huge grin on their face as they walk out of someone's business they have just destroyed. And it's usually a small business owned and run by a local person who may be similar to the looter, other than the fact that the business owner works hard for their money while the looters sprout off about being owed something.

You need to be careful with that mentality. The people you see looting typically aren't the ones you saw protesting.

 

[BAG]

There is one thing in this thread I specifically want to address and that is the kids getting trophies.

Is this what this thread is about to you? Kids have been getting trophies since I was a kid and that makes at least 30 years.

Yes, kids have been getting trophies since before I was a kid. The difference back then was that only the winners or the most improved got trophies.
As I stated earlier, all too often these days there are no winners or losers and everyone gets a trophy. It does breed expectation from kids and if it continues too much they have an unrealistic outlook. I've seen it happen with kids throwing a tantrum because they didn't win anything when they came dead last or didn't put in any effort. Sure, make sure every kid at a party gets a little prize in pass-the-parcel at a 5 year olds birthday party, but once they are 10 and playing sport they should get to know that to win you need to put in effort, and when you lose you need to be gracious in defeat.

 

[cheapbasslovin]

Yes, kids have been getting trophies since before I was a kid. The difference back then was that only the winners or the most improved got trophies.
As I stated earlier, all too often these days there are no winners or losers and everyone gets a trophy. It does breed expectation from kids and if it continues too much they have an unrealistic outlook. I've seen it happen with kids throwing a tantrum because they didn't win anything when they came dead last or didn't put in any effort. Sure, make sure every kid at a party gets a little prize in pass-the-parcel at a 5 year olds birthday party, but once they are 10 and playing sport they should get to know that to win you need to put in effort, and when you lose you need to be gracious in defeat.

I got a trophy for every team I played on regardless of wins and losses until middle school. If a kid throws a tantrum like that, that is a result of being coddled repeatedly (possibly a few embedded personal quirks) and not because he got a few trophies. Again, you see it once and it defines your view, you ignore the 10 other kids on the team that totally have their crap together.

I've coached close to a hundred kids. I teach them to be gracious in victory and reflective in defeat. I'm successful to varying degrees depending on the kid. The kids that throw fits do so from the second they show up to practice on day one to the day the season ends. The trophies mean nothing.

 

[BAG]

I got a trophy for every team I played on regardless of wins and losses until middle school. If a kid throws a tantrum like that, that is a result of being coddled repeatedly (possibly a few embedded personal quirks) and not because he got a few trophies. Again, you see it once and it defines your view, you ignore the 10 other kids on the team that totally have their crap together.

I've coached close to a hundred kids. I teach them to be gracious in victory and reflective in defeat. I'm successful to varying degrees depending on the kid. The kids that throw fits do so from the second they show up to practice on day one to the day the season ends. The trophies mean nothing.

Tantrum might be too strong a word, and it has more often than not been crying and whining to their parents, however I've seen it too often. At least in some cases I've seen the parents have sat them down and explained to them that you don't always get a trophy or prize. Most kids get over it really quickly and learn to not expect something for nothing.

You are correct, it is a result of being coddled repeatedly....by society in general as well as the parents.

 

[cheapbasslovin]

You are correct, it is a result of being coddled repeatedly....by society in general as well as the parents.

So society magically made its way around you? I don't buy the society crap. At least half of the people in this thread are complaining about getting the free trophy, and while anecdotes aren't evidence it does show there's at least some resistance to your perceived societal coddling.

Like I said before, most of the kids on all my teams pretty much have their crap together; if it's a systemic societal problem wouldn't better than half my team melt down whenever the other team got a goal? Wouldn't they act like obnoxious tools whenever they score? Astonishingly, they don't.

 

[slobake]

[QUOTE="ZenG, post: 17313811, member: 254563]

Every time a cyclist gets hit around here at night it was the "bad' driver and the cyclist is the "victim"..........never mind that the cyclist is wearing the darkest clothes possible, isn't wearing a helmet, has no lights at all on the bicycle, and is weaving all over the sidewalk and road at random....

I could go on and on......[/QUOTE]

Yes, darn those cyclists every time one gets run one and killed it's their own stupid fault. Drivers never make mistakes. I don't have a grievance against cyclists and me and other drivers are not victims, I"m just saying.

 

[Bob_Ross]

Every time a cyclist gets hit around here at night it was the "bad' driver and the cyclist is the "victim"..........never mind that the cyclist is wearing the darkest clothes possible, isn't wearing a helmet, has no lights at all on the bicycle, and is weaving all over the sidewalk and road at random....

Where do you live? Around here (NYC) it's exactly the opposite: Every time a cyclist gets hit around here -- be it nighttime or broad daylight -- the entire incident gets posited as Crazy Cyclist With Death Wish Crashes Into An Innocent Car ...even when the cyclist is struck from behind!

 

[Reo]

I'm talking about lower rich/upper middle class who whine incessantly about government aid while not really knowing anything about the requirements or people on aid.

This right here is what drives me crazy. My wife worked for the state for nearly five years as an "employment counselor". Because of that, I know some, not all, of the requirements needed to get food stamps and financial assitance in our state. My wife (and myself) have had to inform multiple people that the information they're spreading about those getting assistance is incorrect. It was just shocking to see how many people drag racism into it. Statements about how "the Mexicans come here illegally and live off government aid". Well, no, they don't. In our state, if you are here illegally, the only assistance you can receive is food stamps and that is ONLY if you have children. Even then the amount is based off only how many children are in the household and the amount isn't all that much. Explaining this to some people is like talking to a wall, especially when they retort that the families still shouldn't get any help. God forbid the kids should eat, right?

Not to mention the fact that the straight financial assistance (just money given to you each month) requires a number of "hoops" for recipients to jump through each month. Everything from keeping verifiable job search logs to providing community service and a bunch of stuff in between is required to qualify for the aid. And truthfully, it isn't that much. Certainly not enough for one person to live on, let alone a family. And most of the people my wife ran into who abused the system were those that actually did work who were paid under the table by their "job creator" companies who were trying to save money in employee benefits.

 

[guitardefector]

. It was just shocking to see how many people drag racism into it. Statements about how "the Mexicans come here illegally and live off government aid". Well, no, they don't.

Spot on! Being of that heritage, most of my "illegal" brothers are either at Home Depot looking for day jobs or working in the dirtiest, low-paying jobs that US nationals won't touch with a ten foot pole.

 

[bluesblaster]

As far as cyclists go, please use some common sense, a cyclist w/ bike is maybe 200 lbs. or so, the average car is a ton and a half at least, it doesn't matter whose at fault, the cyclist is gonna loose everytime. Use the bike lane whenever possible and stay off the road where cars and trucks drive, we don't drive in your bike lane, so don't ride your bike down a busy road and expect everyone should just get out of your way. I see them blow right through red lights when all the cars have to stop, if your using car lanes you are required to observe the same rules . I love to ride my bike but I really question the sanity of these hardcore cyclists in there spandex and snappy shades mixing it up with rush hour traffic, are you people nuts ?

 

[ColonelZulu]

Spot on! Being of that heritage, most of my "illegal" brothers are either at Home Depot looking for day jobs or working in the dirtiest, low-paying jobs that US nationals won't touch with a ten foot pole.

Oh, you mean the ones that I did when I was starting out? Working the biscuit shift at McDonalds in the morning, digging slab trenches by shovel all day, going back to McD to do garbage clean up and hose out the dumpster. Oh, and medical research studies on the side.

This myth that only illegal aliens are willing to work hard for little pay is no more ennobling as it is true.

But I'd be pretty disappointed if I were going out there to do some manual labor, unskilled, right out of high school, and had to wait in line behind other people who broke the law to get in line in the first place. Meanwhile, if I were to show up where they came from and tried the same thing I'd be arrested and deported for violating their immigration law and trying to work without a visa.

My grandfather was an illegal alien, by the way.

 

[bachlover]

I think there is undue attention given to the few idiots who espouse the kind of nonsense linked in this thread, and to the busybodies in public service and the truly disconnected from reality in academia who split similar nonsense.

But I don't think it's any big harmful trend, and when it comes to children, I don't believe making everything a competition is beneficial, even though it might have some logic when preparing people for their adult lives in a very competitive society such as the U.S.

"The battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton".
- Wellington

 

[Solarmist]

And then when they get into the real world so many of them can't cope and become depressed or angry because the reality is that in life there ARE winners and losers.
The winners are usually the ones who work hard, make compromises in life in order to get where they want to etc etc and then get over-taxed to pay for the others, who whinge that life isn't fair and that the government owe them a living and why can't I be rich like those other people (who are in reality just comfortably off).

+1000 - Excellent post - I couldn't agree more ...

 

[One Drop]

"The battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton".
- Wellington

I'll remember that the next time we are discussing the sports programs of private schools in the last century designed to create the nation's ruling elite.

 

[bachlover]

I'll remember that the next time we are discussing the sports programs of private schools in the last century designed to create the nation's ruling elite.

According to Wellington (seemingly) they were also designed to help foster a confidence and belief that they could beat one's opponents, which in turn helped create the nation's ruling elite. Deservedly so IMO.

 

[guitardefector]

Oh, you mean the ones that I did when I was starting out? Working the biscuit shift at McDonalds in the morning, digging slab trenches by shovel all day, going back to McD to do garbage clean up and hose out the dumpster. Oh, and medical research studies on the side.

This myth that only illegal aliens are willing to work hard for little pay is no more ennobling as it is true.

But I'd be pretty disappointed if I were going out there to do some manual labor, unskilled, right out of high school, and had to wait in line behind other people who broke the law to get in line in the first place. Meanwhile, if I were to show up where they came from and tried the same thing I'd be arrested and deported for violating their immigration law and trying to work without a visa.

My grandfather was an illegal alien, by the way.

I did them too Zulu, in the mid 70s during high school. Yes, there were (even then) field work and greasy spoon jobs that my classmates wouldn't even get near and were taken by illegal aliens. I also did cushy work at JC Penny, a photo shop, etc... but I had to hustle for those and take lots of bs from "the man". Mind you, I'm not complaining. That's the reality of living in the USA if you're not rich. And I was too busy to complain about who or what alien was taking whatever job I was entitled to. I simply got there first and said, 'yes, I'll do it'. End of story.