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What am I doing wrong?
- Thread starter TheIndieKid
- Start date
years ago, i had an ongoing argument with a friend of mine who felt strongly that you can tell when someone is "putting feeling" into their music. i felt someone with good showmanship could make it seem they were feeling the music when in reality they were thinking about getting their car repaired or the argument they had with a neighbor. the person my friend brought up the most in these arguments was b.b. king.
well, somewhere along the line b.b. king released his autobiography, and i read it. and guess what - he said that what he was thinking about when playing on stage was he was picturing one of the women in the audience in their panties.
i believe there are people who REALLY put their heart and soul into their music without showing it on their faces or showy gestures, and there are others who have lots of facial expressions and gestures but aren't keyed into what they're playing at all. and i strongly believe that no one - not a spouse, grandma, bandmate or anyone else - should change what you're doing or how you're doing it if you love to play.
well, somewhere along the line b.b. king released his autobiography, and i read it. and guess what - he said that what he was thinking about when playing on stage was he was picturing one of the women in the audience in their panties.
i believe there are people who REALLY put their heart and soul into their music without showing it on their faces or showy gestures, and there are others who have lots of facial expressions and gestures but aren't keyed into what they're playing at all. and i strongly believe that no one - not a spouse, grandma, bandmate or anyone else - should change what you're doing or how you're doing it if you love to play.
An old musician neatly cleared up the OP's question for me long ago. He said, "You know how some people can tell a joke and nobody laughs while somebody else tells the same joke and you're in stitches? Play like the second guy."
I was going to suggest the same thing. Sing your lines, sing the syllables you want your bass to say. Does your bass line go "bum bum ba bum" or does it go " growww grr grr Groowwwwwl".
I think it's equally important to practice outside of technique as much as practicing technique. Practice doing the opposite of what you're trying to achieve.
Play as hard as you can. Play as soft as you can. Play the same thing 20 different ways. Close your eyes. Stare at the wall. Stand up sit down stomp your feet. Dance as hard as you can and still maintain the bass line. Get out of your head and let your body do the talking. Then sit back down and concentrate on technique.
I totally agree about singing the music, and breathing the phrases while you play.
Piano students get this complaint a lot, and I do mean *a lot!* especially those who play from scores mostly.
I learned something valuable when I switched to synthesizers. What we were taught was to listen closely to the instruments the patches were supposed to emulate, and try to emulate their phrasing and feel. And by osmosis I ended up really listening to how other instrumentalists played the same lines, and try to incorporate some of their phrasings.
I play three types of instruments, bass, piano / keys and recorder. For each, the way you phrase is very different. And I've played a line on one in order to enhance my feeling I want to use on another. The thing wind players often bring to the table is fantastic phrasing. Singers do too; many musicians learned from Ol Blue Eyes e.g. Frank Sinatra.
I think there are things string players are forced to learn that pianists can overlook due to the limitations of your tonal effect. Meaning, on a piano, what you can do for your tone happens as you play the key itself. Tone, I don't mean phrasing here. But on bass, we can use vibrato and other tools throughout the note's duration. Even a half step glissando (slide into the note) is a lot more "organic" on a string instrument than, say, a half step grace note on a piano.
Those little glissandos, an older instructor used to tell us, is "letting the notes breathe".
If you can figure out how to bring in the flavors of other instruments you're listening to, and figure out how to "color" your sound between the attack and the end of the note's duration, I think you'll find yourself closer to what she's talking about.
Piano students get this complaint a lot, and I do mean *a lot!* especially those who play from scores mostly.
I learned something valuable when I switched to synthesizers. What we were taught was to listen closely to the instruments the patches were supposed to emulate, and try to emulate their phrasing and feel. And by osmosis I ended up really listening to how other instrumentalists played the same lines, and try to incorporate some of their phrasings.
I play three types of instruments, bass, piano / keys and recorder. For each, the way you phrase is very different. And I've played a line on one in order to enhance my feeling I want to use on another. The thing wind players often bring to the table is fantastic phrasing. Singers do too; many musicians learned from Ol Blue Eyes e.g. Frank Sinatra.
I think there are things string players are forced to learn that pianists can overlook due to the limitations of your tonal effect. Meaning, on a piano, what you can do for your tone happens as you play the key itself. Tone, I don't mean phrasing here. But on bass, we can use vibrato and other tools throughout the note's duration. Even a half step glissando (slide into the note) is a lot more "organic" on a string instrument than, say, a half step grace note on a piano.
Those little glissandos, an older instructor used to tell us, is "letting the notes breathe".
If you can figure out how to bring in the flavors of other instruments you're listening to, and figure out how to "color" your sound between the attack and the end of the note's duration, I think you'll find yourself closer to what she's talking about.
I feel like Anthony Wellington had some similar pointers from his grandmother. I would setup a couple of lessons with him and see what he thinks you can do to improve.
So much good advice and great theories/ideas here already. I'm guessing, if you have an issue at all, its a combination of many things. But, I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep playing. Once you know the material and are confident playing it, the feel will come. When my daughter was born, I kind of lost the passion to be a better bass player. I was happy just meeting up with the guys once a week and working on some tunes, having a few beers, and hopefully getting a show once a month. I always had a passion for playing with a group and playing live, but building my skills and repertoire wasn't much on my mind, the status quo was just fine. So, until recently, I didn't play a whole lot. When my band was on tour was the only time Id play consecutive days, and even then, we'd only be out for a couple weeks a year. I basically went to band practice every week to refresh myself on the set and be ready for local shows or whatever. We got pretty busy last year, and not only toured a little longer, but we played a lot of festivals, fly-outs dates, etc. The songs became so second nature to me that, for the first time, I could really focus on how I was delivering my parts, not just hitting the notes and playing in time. It was a pretty liberating feeling, and I think I kind of rediscovered my style, or, at least, the style or feel Id like to play with. We're recording a new album in January, and I know the material okay, but I'm determined to play it until my fingers will never forget... I can tell you the feel, or soul, or nuances or whatever you want to call it are appearing more and more everyday. So, if you're like me at all, I say, just keep playing. If you can play on time and in key, you can worry about finding your groove down the road... it'll come.
Well, you ARE correct in the idea that grandma may or may not know what she is talking about. But what grandma stated is absolutely true. Something IS indeed obviously lacking. If it weren't then the OP would have no reason to practice because he'd be the best bassist in the world and playing bass would be an absolute bore to him because he would have no reason to engage mentally with the activity.
The way to tell when someone knows less than you about music is when they heap tons of praise on you. That discredits them right there. Either they don't hear your deficiencies or they are trying to butter you up because they want something from you. edit: OR, they are mindless automatons who are programmed to praise everybody because all people supposedly like to be praised.
So IMO the OP should definitely be trying to figure out what granny was going on about.
An incredibly important lesson for anyone playing synth versions of non-synth instruments, that all too often isn't learned.
That, and learning the pitch range of those instruments so you're not playing flute two octaves lower than would be possible on the real thing.
This seems to be based on an assumption about his grandmother's musical ear. Other than saying she's not a bassist, what is that based on?
Heck, she's talking to him about note duration and dynamics. Doesn't exactly sound clueless on the surface.
And even a non-musician might be able to tell the difference between robotic and fluid. It's not like you need to know how to drive to feel when someone's jerking the wheel.
You guys are missing the point of what I'm saying.
We aren't talking about whether his audience likes his performance or not. We're talking about his grandmother listening to him practice and trying to tell him how to play.
She may well have a good ear and know something about music. The OP said she isn't a bassist but he didn't say if she's otherwise musical. And his playing may well not be very expressive. But that's also not the point.
The point IS, what advice does the OP NEED to be able to get from where his playing is now to where it needs to be? What is he actually lacking, what does he need to work on? It's all very well to say he needs to be more expressive or even that he needs to pay more attention to note duration, but for all we know there's something else he needs to be working on first, before he's ready to go there - maybe his left-hand technique or timing or muting or just comfort with his fingerboard, or any number of other things.
For that matter, maybe he's practicing the songs as they ought to be played but she doesn't realize how his, seemingly inexpressive, part would fit into the larger dynamic of a band. Maybe if he were to wax all soulful in his home practice on whatever particular material he's working on, he would set himself to ruin the part in a band context.
That's why I'm talking about respect for technique - not ignoring the taste of the audience to be artsy-fartsy in his own world, but to respect the instrument and the way it's played and not to assume that just anyone knows well enough what they're hearing to be able to give good advice on what a musician needs to change to get the desired result. He hasn't given us enough information to know where he's at and what he really needs to work on, and the anecdote doesn't convince me that his grandmother really knows much more than we do on the relevant question.
Themselves (grammar polices at work)
Not only themselves, I find those selfs (!?) quite intriguing:
Besides all this, I can't tell when just hearing them if they played with gloves or not.
You seem to be missing the counterpoint. She could be right. Unless that's not possible, what you initially assumed is problematic IMO.
Heck, if he thinks he's nailing it he can ignore her. But his coming here would hint that maybe he's not so sure.
