What Amplifier Specifications Do You Feel Is Beneficial?

[okcrum]

The meltdown point or how long a amp can operate at max volume before going into distress.

This is normally left as an exercise for the user, since control settings may vary wildly.

 

[bdplaid]

Why the focus on "flat", when most of the most coveted amps are anything but flat? If you knew that an amp wasn't ruler flat, wold that disqualify it from consideration? Most players just simply don't choose flat what presented with such options in a blind listening test.

It's not that I care about playing thru the amp at a 'flat' setting. Its because I need a point of reference.

Me too. "Flat" is a good reference point. MarkBass heads are more flat-sounding than others, and usually get dinged for sounding lifeless. I think they wouldn't get that ding if they advertised that their design was intended to be the way it is.

On all of my parametric designs, the rotation is linear from endpoint to endpoint. Perhaps adding this information to the manual might be helpful?

Probably. In my case, I never read the amp faceplate (can't anyway, without glasses), but having a good mental picture of the "o'clock" positions of 100, 200, 500, 1K and 3K would be helpful. In other words, printing it in the manual would give me something to recall in my head onstage. Knowing it's linear somehow doesn't help.

we are almost all under the (false) impression that all knobs at noon is supposed to be the "flat" position.

This is a good point. They usually aren't

I have also been told (sometimes by marketing folks) that nobody will read more than 2 pages of a manual, and I'm sure there is some truth to this as well.

We have seen many examples in this thread with people asking for features rather than specs. ;-)

And yeah, I like the sound of Ampegs and Oranges and HiWatts and Ashdowns, but I always wanna know what I'm working with and how to make it do what I want.
Having a reference to "flat" helps make that happen.

I wish one could generate a spec that would tell us what amps actually sound like, relative to each other. The request for "loudness in grades of SVT" is a brilliant start, but wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have a chart / graph that showed what an amp sounded like? Yes, I'm kidding, but you have to admit it would be useful!

 

[agedhorse]

I've had a lot of amps.

One of the features I liked, was on a LabSeries 100 with 4x10"'s, a guitar amp, a light that came on to tell me how much of the on board compression was being used.

The output limit LED will give you a pretty good indication of when you have crossed the threshold into the output tube emulation limiting, and from this threshold you have ~6dB of available compliance between the threshold and and actual clipping. 6dB is in reality quite a bit as that represents a quadrupling of power in terms of dynamic range. I haven't seen this on a guitar amp though... butthen again it's "always too loud"

This is what I meant. Those are the specs I'd be looking for. That's what the OP asked. Whether the manufacturer is lying about meeting them, is a totally different matter. And I don't really care about his anecdotal experiences at work (or yours, either, for that matter), or how often he feel the needs to bathe. That's the angry diatribe I'm talking about.

So I asked in the original post for this to remain respectful. I don't care if you don't like my story, or Paul's story. Please do not participate anymore, you are the only one who has crossed this line and continue to do so.

I'd like to know which tubes are used.

I'd like to know which speakers are used. If said speaker has no published specification, at least a basic description along the lines of "The speaker is a derivative of a Celestion Vintage 30. It has slightly more low mids and is made in England.".

In the case of tube amps, I'd also like to know the manufacturer of the transformers.

Sorry if these are repeats. I didn't bother to read all 10 pages. Of course, these may not apply to all amps.

Tube compliment is pretty standard, though we (or at least I) don't get too deep into the subjective nature of tubes in general because there's too much emotion which in many cases are driven by those selling tubes. This road is paved with many "emperor has no clothes" challenges.

We don't get too heavy into disclosing which speakers we use or what the differences, or derivations might be. I've been down this road before and it's just not very productive. The performance and data provided speaks for itself, though I will think about this some more.

The manufacturers of custom parts are proprietary information. You would like to know, so would competitors, and especially the guys running the "copy-shops".

 

[eigentone]

Frequency switches are not always documented well. What exactly does the Deep/Bright/etc switch do on an amp?

As an example, this came from a Mesa manual:

BOLD punches through with a pronounced bump in these mid and upper mid/ low treble frequencies that will allow you to cut through a dense mix and be heard. It also gives the impression of increased power and headroom as cleans sounds fly out of the speakers with immediacy and authority. Likewise overdriven sounds, especially in TWEED, willingly adopt the added attack and turn it into stinging aggression. Be sure to work with the TREBLE, MID and PRESENCE in the BOLD setting to fine tune these regions and optimize both the sound and the feel.​

For some of us, it would be preferable to be provided the boost's frequency/gain/Q. Of course, things aren'y always so simple.

 

[agedhorse]

Good question @agedhorse . I think there are always up and coming youngsters learning bass. As they aspire to higher levels of gear, they really don't know what they're looking for. A spec sheet that would break down HOW the controls work and what each control does would be good. When the print gets too small the paper just gets tossed in the shipping box. Not by me, but I've seen it done.

I hope what I'm saying makes sense. A spec sheet that would kind of teach the novice a sense of what the amp is about. AND maybe on the flip side of the page, the more technical specs. If you look at Mackie manuals they're really good at breaking down the specs to understandable.

I wish everyone would standardize on RMS watts. Or whatever you think is the most truthful. And then EVERYONE use THAT standard. But that's probably "in a perfect world."

The spec sheet is also part of the owner's manual, it's quite comprehensive and all of our manuals are available for download. This is why I'm asking these questions, to discover what more might be truly useful. And, yes we already use watts (RMS).

Me too. This would also be helpful for input.

If there is an input Pad, I want to know what the amount is (unless it's very nonlinear). Some manus do this already, perhaps Mesa does.

Correct, we do in the manual, maybe add it to the spec. sheet?

 

[agedhorse]

Frequency switches are not always documented well. What exactly does the Deep/Bright/etc switch do on an amp?

As an example, this came from a Mesa manual:

BOLD punches through with a pronounced bump in these mid and upper mid/ low treble frequencies that will allow you to cut through a dense mix and be heard. It also gives the impression of increased power and headroom as cleans sounds fly out of the speakers with immediacy and authority. Likewise overdriven sounds, especially in TWEED, willingly adopt the added attack and turn it into stinging aggression. Be sure to work with the TREBLE, MID and PRESENCE in the BOLD setting to fine tune these regions and optimize both the sound and the feel.​

For some of us, it would be preferable to be provided the boost's frequency/gain/Q. Of course, things aren'y always so simple.

Agreed.

Take a look at the Subway D-800+ manual, see if those descriptions make more sense to you?

 

[HolmeBass]

In my view, A "Head" includes a "Pre-amp" and an "Amplifier"

A pre-amp and a power amp, commonly together called "an amplifier".

 

[40Hz]

Why the focus on "flat", when most of the most coveted amps are anything but flat?

In my case, it's not so much I want flat as don't want a curve (i.e. "baked in" sound) I already know I don't like from my experience with other amps that have it.

But being close to flat (or not) isn't a "thing" for me as long as I can roll in the sound I want with the onboard EQ. It's "all in the mids" for me. As long as I can genuinely adjust those, I'm happy. It's when I can't override something that bugs me in the sonic character of the amp that "flat" starts to sound appealing.

 

[wmhill]

So, I've discussed the whole issue with continuous, and the math conversion from "RMS" to peak already. The other stuff is already included.

I thought from the original post, this was in reference to any amps spec sheets in general, not necessarily just yours. And my point was what "i " look for in the specs. I guess I didn't understand your directions.

 

[40Hz]

@agedhorse - I just discovered you were with Genz-Benz and Mesa!

I wanted to take a moment to thank you for sharing your expertise (and patience ) with the people here at TB. It's not often you get more than a cursory response or two from people who are actually in the business.

So thank you again.

 

[eigentone]

Tube compliment is pretty standard, though we (or at least I) don't get too deep into the subjective nature of tubes in general because there's too much emotion which in many cases are driven by those selling tubes. This road is paved with many "emperor has no clothes" challenges.

I wasn't clear enough, sorry. The actual request was for Mesa to disclose the manufacturer and model of the tubes which are supplied with the amp. Yes, Mesa specifies the type of tubes the amp uses (eg 12AX7, 6L6). They also tend to describe the functions/tasks in the manuals, which is great.

Mesa tests tubes and Mesa-brand those which pass tests as Mesa tubes. The rejects may be used by another supplier/brand, for another application, or ultimately returned to the manufacturer. It would be nice to know which tubes are supplied with the amp. For example, the 12AX7s which came with the amp are JJ Electronic manufactured 12AX7s.

 

[agedhorse]

I thought from the original post, this was in reference to any amps spec sheets in general, not necessarily just yours. And my point was what "i " look for in the specs. I guess I didn't understand your directions.

I think you did, just that I had already explained that the difference between "RMS" and peak for a sine wave is exactly a factor of two. Watts (peak) = 2x Watts (RMS).

The question is that peak is easy to add to a spec sheet (a lot of companies do this and some only include the peak power). My followup question to this is should we include "peak" in the light of all the "dishonest power" comments being made throughout the thread?

The rest of your requests are already included in our spec sheets.

 

[Josh Kneisel]

This also might be sort of off topic, but to those of us who play EBG and UB I think it would be amazing to have instead of a simple -6db pad on the input have an input impedance selector so we could select 1 megaohm for passive EBG and 10 megaohms for a piezo pickup if that makes sense at all....

 

[agedhorse]

I wasn't clear enough, sorry. The actual request was for Mesa to disclose the manufacturer and model of the tubes which are supplied with the amp. Yes, Mesa specifies the type of tubes the amp uses (eg 12AX7, 6L6). They also tend to describe the functions/tasks in the manuals, which is great.

Mesa tests tubes and Mesa-brand those which pass tests as Mesa tubes. The rejects may be used by another supplier/brand, for another application, or ultimately returned to the manufacturer. It would be nice to know which tubes are supplied with the amp. For example, the 12AX7s which came with the amp are JJ Electronic manufactured 12AX7s.

All we can provide is the performance metrics, ie. the tube passed our screening and aging tests and meet the target that the designer has set for the tube. Rejects may not be bad tubes, but not meet our criteria (which may be very different than other manufacturer's needs). Using our tubes guarantees that a particular level of performance (electrical and mechanical) has been met and we are confident in what we are supplying (along with a longer than standard warranty).

Hope this helps.

 

[wmhill]

I think you did, just that I had already explained that the difference between "RMS" and peak for a sine wave is exactly a factor of two. Watts (peak) = 2x Watts (RMS).

The question is that peak is easy to add to a spec sheet (a lot of companies do this and some only include the peak power). My followup question to this is should we include "peak" in the light of all the "dishonest power" comments being made throughout the thread?

The rest of your requests are already included in our spec sheets.

My thought was to state the continuous VS (or in other words, instead of) peak power. Peak really doesn't mean anything to me, I'd rather know what my continuous horsepower is.... no pun intended.

 

[eigentone]

Correct, we do in the manual, maybe add it to the spec. sheet?

I think it would be good to include the Pad amount if the spec sheet goes as far as detailing the boost/cut amounts of the EQ. Otherwise, it may make more sense to keep that detail in the manual.

As somebody who likes more headroom than most electric bassists, the Pad amount is important to me.

 

[agedhorse]

This also might be sort of off topic, but to those of us who play EBG and UB I think it would be amazing to have instead of a simple -6db pad on the input have an input impedance selector so we could select 1 megaohm for passive EBG and 10 megaohms for a piezo pickup if that makes sense at all....

Good question.

So, I spent a fair amount of my professional life designing piezo pickups. While there are a few that might benefit from higher than 1M, on the whole the point of diminishing returns during listening tests has consistently been a little less that 1M, and those that would benefit from higher than 1M would be much better served with an on-board pick-up. Otherwise you pay a big penalty in noise (circuit noise as well as tribo-electric noise) and RFI intrusion into the signal path. You want the preamp with say 10M to be very close to the pickups themselves.

This is the key performance aspect to instruments that do integrate very small crystals into their bridge structure is that the on-board preamps are essential to working reliably and free from noise issues.

Most crystals are large enough that they don't need (or benefit) from the higher impedance, and can actually suffer from under-damped operation when too lightly loaded. This is my opinion, and of course there will always be exceptions to the rule.

 

[agedhorse]

My thought was to state the continuous VS (or in other words, instead of) peak power. Peak really doesn't mean anything to me, I'd rather know what my continuous horsepower is.... no pun intended.

Sorry, I thought "as compared with".

Define continuous... turns out this is a lot more difficult that it appears, given evolution of amplifiers and technology in the industry.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Lots of gear "lives" in trailers, trunks, back seats and garages in all sorts of weather. Could be useful info if there are any performance changes under temperature extremes.

For example, some upholstery vinyl has a "cold crack" spec if it's likely to be used for car or motorcycle seats.

I think you're on to something there.
A graph that shows...
Amps/Cabs stored at a temperature of X1 for time Y1 should sit at temperature X2 for time Y2 before powering it on.
Or a sensor that won't let you power on below a certain ambient temperature.
I suppose relative humidity might figure in? Not that non-living things much care about "feels like" but I see equipment that specifies a maximum non-condensing relative humidity. That seems useful. You don't want sweaty gear when you fire it up 'Specially tubes.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

I'm probably in over my head... gulp!