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What are good amps for bar gigs?

Two of the same good sounding cab is always a solid sound. Your uber cab of unknown physics may well break new ground but I doubt it.

As for what amp or cabs for pub rock, a single 2x10 is all I need with PA. I recommend finding a 2x10 you like the sound of and getting two of them to play bigger rooms. Or 1x15's.

It's a big bar that can't be filled with vertical 4x10 or 2x15, then you need PA for the whole band or you blow each other off the stage with your amps with drums disappearing into a thudding and crashing mess.
 
If" I read the thread? It was a page long. That's one thread and hardly worthy of note IMO. Except for the very first post, which contains this gem: "Its not that mis matched cabs cant work, its that they will not perform as well or as predictably as matched."

This is simply not true. They can perform as well, not as well and even better. And if they're designed with using multiple cabs with different drivers in mind, as GB says they do, why can't they perform predictably?
They can if the phase relationships when put together are similar. But nobody is giving us those measurements, so the best we can do is try it and see if it works unless we have the equipment to test them accurately. And trust me, I've heard as many a hideous combination of mixed cabs as I've heard good ones, even from the same company's same line. OTOH, the only bad matching cab rigs I've ever heard are ones that start with bad sounding cabs to begin with.

I've had numerous complaints from some of the "physics" crowds because of my success playing professionally with several mixed cab rigs. I got asked why I brought the rigs up, why couldn't I just fall in line with the herd who said it couldn't work. They've been called abberations and worse because some pretty small minded folks IMO refuse to believe that anything can occur outside of what they believe. And that's cool, I don't mind that they only look "right" to other folks with the same sort of limited thinking. A small but very vocal minority.

"It didn't work for me so everyone should do as I do" is easily one of the saddest sentiments around here IMO.

That's why the Pro Audio guys I appreciate here (there aren't many, not with the typical groupthink that prevails) are the ones who not only understand the science, they also understand that anyone making a hard judgement based solely on that and on the woefully inadequate specs typically provided by builders is missing the point. They're not stuck in the box. Real world experience and listening does matter.
Real world listening pretty much has exposed every single thing that Bill Fitzmaurice ever told us to be true as far as I'm concerned. However hardline you perceive a guy like Bill, his info is dead-on accurate. Now what ISN'T accurate that Bill did was to poop on designs that didn't fall into his paradigm. For example, I love 810's even though they beam, and I couldn't care less about it, whereas guys like Bill consider them inferior. But he's right about the beaming, so it never bothered me that he pooped on the design.

People who understand the engineering can still be surprised... but to the followers, instead of understanding what they don't know or have actual experience with, they'd rather simply shout it down. I've seen people actually exclaim on several occassions that they want to put an end to people using mixed cabs, which is easily one of the dumbest things I've seen said around here by supposedly intelligent people. Not satisfied to live in their box, they want everyone else to do the same. Wow.
I love having people speaking plain fact about gear and it doesn't offend me if I get the truth. Once you get the real facts, you can make up your own mind and do what you want. But I don't ever want to see the truth get shouted down, even if it flies in the face of what I previously believed as gospel. There's a hell of a lot of BS floating around and the manufacturers are in no hurry to set us straight.

My most recent example was a cab I currently use that doesn't fit the "norm". So instead of just being curious about it, my honesty was called into question. I was told that I was trying to take advantage of people... with something I bought and was not selling. Not simply passing on my impression of a new product that exceeded my expectations and flew in the face of what I thought I knew. The difference with me was that I waited until I'd actually heard the cab vs. just giving an uniformed kneejerk dismissal.
:D

The physical dimensions were even called into question by people who chose to ignore what was right in front of their face the entire time. Very scientific. Again, sweet.

Fast forward a couple of weeks, a friend of mine comes to a gig and hears the cab in action and his impressions fell in line with mine. He heard the low end that I was told the cab couldn't produce in the earlier threads:D. And the overall very impressive output from the very unconventional box. He posted that and THEN people decided to try to figure out why it works as it does.
:D
I remember that thread. The one thing Bill didn't account for is that some folks might like it anyway, but his info about it was factual and pretty well dead-on as far as I remember. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't for me based on the info the company told us and what other light Bill could shed on it. I have no interest in cabs like that while you apparently do. That's cool...but it doesn't make the info given any less accurate.

Why are people so quick to call BS? I don't know. It doesn't make them look smart or informed IMO. At it's core it's ignorant and arrogant. That's how I see it. And that's probably why I've had success where they haven't... I don't presume to have it all figured out... so I actually TRY THINGS FOR MYSELF. And neither do the Pro Audio guys I respect. We can all still be surprised... despite how hard some folks seem to fight that.
:cool:
I love to look like a bigshot on the internet! But I will also listen and learn when presented with a greater mind than mine in an area I admittedly don't know a lot about. And I will be the first to admit when I drop the ball. If more people were as great as I am, this world would be a better place instead of the ticking time bomb it is.
 
Here we go again...
:D

They can if the phase relationships when put together are similar. But nobody is giving us those measurements, so the best we can do is try it and see if it works unless we have the equipment to test them accurately. And trust me, I've heard as many a hideous combination of mixed cabs as I've heard good ones, even from the same company's same line. OTOH, the only bad matching cab rigs I've ever heard are ones that start with bad sounding cabs to begin with.

No, I won't trust you... I'll trust me. Because MY EXPERIENCE DIFFERS FROM YOURS. I can't be more blunt about that. You don't have to believe that... but you clearly don't have MY experience nor needs identical to mine.

Real world listening pretty much has exposed every single thing that Bill Fitzmaurice ever told us to be true as far as I'm concerned. However hardline you perceive a guy like Bill, his info is dead-on accurate. Now what ISN'T accurate that Bill did was to poop on designs that didn't fall into his paradigm. For example, I love 810's even though they beam, and I couldn't care less about it, whereas guys like Bill consider them inferior. But he's right about the beaming, so it never bothered me that he pooped on the design.

Sorry but how insightful is pooping on a design THAT WORKS FOR MUSICIANS? Live performance is not a lab. Personal preferences apparently aren't supposed to matter. It's like telling someone who likes cheap basses they're wrong because technically speaking a more expensive one should be preferred. That simply ignores ALL of the factors that go into equipment choices. And acts as if everyone does the same gig with the same requirements. We know that's not the case but some choose to ignore that basic fact anyway.

That's what people like him continually seem to ignore. And if beaming does occur but you still love the cab and use it successfully the problem is...? I'm not particularly fond of old school 810 cabs but I'm not going to tell other people that based on what I like or think I know they shouldn't use what they like and are somehow ignorant for likiing it.

I love having people speaking plain fact about gear and it doesn't offend me if I get the truth. Once you get the real facts, you can make up your own mind and do what you want. But I don't ever want to see the truth get shouted down, even if it flies in the face of what I previously believed as gospel. There's a hell of a lot of BS floating around and the manufacturers are in no hurry to set us straight.

Yet you don't seem to be bothered by the plain truth that mixed cabs can and more important DO work for people other than yourself being shouted down? You've replaced one gospel for another one that can be particularly narrowminded. And BS? That isn't restricted to one camp.
:D

I remember that thread. The one thing Bill didn't account for is that some folks might like it anyway, but his info about it was factual and pretty well dead-on as far as I remember. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't for me based on the info the company told us and what other light Bill could shed on it. I have no interest in cabs like that while you apparently do. That's cool...but it doesn't make the info given any less accurate.

No, you don't remember that thread. Bill had nothing to do with it and as I mentioned, it was about a cab I recently bought and currently use.

I love to look like a bigshot on the internet! But I will also listen and learn when presented with a greater mind than mine in an area I admittedly don't know a lot about. And I will be the first to admit when I drop the ball. If more people were as great as I am, this world would be a better place instead of the ticking time bomb it is.

Yes, the big man on the internet thing seems to trump having a reasonable discussion.

As far as dropping the ball and admitting it, this is simply not true though I guess it's nice to think that about yourself. Here's an example: you and I KNOW that the vast majority of manufacturer's specs are sorely lacking in detail. Yet in the face of all that you don't know you'd still proclaim that you know what a cab will sound like based only on what you think you've learned here from the greater mind(s) and what little the manufacturer put in writing. And I have no doubt that you know you can't because you don't have anywhere enough real data to base an informed opinion on. Occassionally you've even admitted that and then go right back to the same old rant anyway. I honestly don't get it.
:hmm:

That's why I appreciate people like Duke Lejeune who not only understand the science, they also don't pretend that actual listening isn't as important component as it is. That they have no need for experimentation because they already know what every possible implementation could do.
:cool:
 
Oh, be quiet you lot! ;)

Here's my answer to the question... Warwick BC300. Loud, sturdy, full of features, transparent sounding, convenient to move around. Perfect bar/pub/club amp.

BC300_sml.jpg
 
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Funny?

I don't recall anyone saying do not mix driver sizes etc. I thought most were simply stating it's more of a gamble than getting 2 identical cabs/drivers etc..

Huh, must've missed it.

Yeah, you missed it. Lots of occurences.

And yes, people have actually said they wanted to put an end to others using mixed cabs. Because you should not do it, period. More than once.
 
Why has this thread been hijacked by a futile discussion of teh evils of mixing cabs/drivers? As if anyone at a bar cares or can hear the difference, or you actually need more than one cabinet at a pub, or the majority of people can afford to be this picky. Do you pedants even play live music?
 
Bottom line is - if you are using a mixed cab setup and it "works" for you, great. Maybe its the only setup youve ever known. As Jimmy stated above, I also used to believe a 115 and 210 or 410 was a good combo because its what I saw in magazines and at the music stores. Did that setup work for me? Sure it did. But no where near as well as 2 of the same cab. Maybe where you are standing with your mixed cab setup is the "sweet spot" because everything sounds "in-phase", but I assure you, there are places in the audience where your sound is "confused" due to the physics of wave / phase cancellation. ... But if you are happy with your 115/210 rig, rock on!
 
Why has this thread been hijacked by a futile discussion of teh evils of mixing cabs/drivers? As if anyone at a bar cares or can hear the difference, or you actually need more than one cabinet at a pub, or the majority of people can afford to be this picky. Do you pedants even play live music?

Yes, for a living. And my primary concern is not what bar patrons care about because if I do it right, they'll hear just fine. And I have small modular rigs that I've used in bars with great results.

If what people at a bar care about or can discern is important to you, cool.
 
Bottom line is - if you are using a mixed cab setup and it "works" for you, great. Maybe its the only setup youve ever known. As Jimmy stated above, I also used to believe a 115 and 210 or 410 was a good combo because its what I saw in magazines and at the music stores. Did that setup work for me? Sure it did. But no where near as well as 2 of the same cab. Maybe where you are standing with your mixed cab setup is the "sweet spot" because everything sounds "in-phase", but I assure you, there are places in the audience where your sound is "confused" due to the physics of wave / phase cancellation. ... But if you are happy with your 115/210 rig, rock on!

And maybe it's not the only setup you've ever known.
:D

And you can't assure that any more with an unknown mixed cab setup than an unknown single cab or dual cab setup. You simply can't... because there is no single definitive example of either.

Why do people do this? I've checked the onstage and room dispersion (using a wireless and pro audio personel) often enough that your assurances ring hollow IME. And I've no doubt others could experience similar results.