What brands made rickenbacker copies?

[roadkill2309]

This is something I was unaware of. Do I smell a lawsuit?

They can try, but in a country with no copyright, there's no real way that they can win. Every now and again, China's government seizes a tonne or two of 'bootleg' DVDs so that western media can see how much of a team player they're being, but really, I can't see Beijing being interested in appeasing Rickenbacker. And for the number of these that will likely end up in North American hands, who cares?

 

[michael_atw]

This is something I was unaware of. Do I smell a lawsuit?

They're everywhere. If you go on ioffer.com the Asian (China) made copies VASTLY outnumber the real guitars.

 

[michael_atw]

And for the number of these that will likely end up in North American hands, who cares?

Every amateur or novice (knowledge-wise) person from 9-109 who wants to find and buy the real thing...without having to worry about whether they are constantly getting ripped off by legions of liars and fakes. That's who cares.

i.e. about 80-90% of the instrument-playing population.

 

[roadkill2309]

Every amateur or novice (knowledge-wise) person from 9-109 who wants to find and buy the real thing...without having to worry about whether they are constantly getting ripped off by legions of liars and fakes. That's who cares.

i.e. about 80-90% of the instrument-playing population.

That's not what I was talking about. I'm saying that a lawsuit won't do a thing because the 80%-90% that you're talking about will know just enough to know what a Rick *is,* and know just enough to buy online rather than walking into a music store--yet won't know the rule of thumb, which is 'if it seems to good to be tue, it is.'

When you weigh that against the amount of people who are rank beginners who'll walk into their local shop or those who actually know a thing or two, it's just not enough people to make anyone in China move on it.

I think that we get a skewed view of the word here on TB. The things that we think will shake the planet sometimes wouldn't cause a ripple outside of the TalkBassosphere. I'd be surprised if this wasn't one of those times.

 

[Eldo]

I was rolling down on floor... This is really something:

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Brand new with free shipping!

And case.

China Brand!

 

[Govier966]

if they had vendors for these in north america their would be some major lawsuits. I have no problem with clones but putting the actual logo on the headstock is just wrong!

 

[user362432]

Maybe Ric with J pickups?

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[Tarrbot]

Maybe Ric with J pickups?

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Well, it has more frets than a typical Ric bass.

 

[McHaven]

Well, all the Japanese basses tend to come from a few factories. Companies just ordered them and slapped their brand name on the truss rod cover. Look for the serial on the jack, look for the number of truss rods. Most copies only had 1. Every real Ric has 2. Joey's Bass notes has a detailed checklist. There were neckthrough copies made. I've got one

 

[BC8705]

They're everywhere. If you go on ioffer.com the Asian (China) made copies VASTLY outnumber the real guitars.

I like the fact that you can get a '71 4001 in Burgundyglo for $165

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[poorbassist15]

I was rolling down on floor... This is really something:

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Brand new with free shipping!

And case.

LOL!!! This is so bad Ric doesn't have to sue them!!

 

[poorbassist15]

I'd actually love to have a copy, but one that the seller knows is a copy. It is frustrating that people try to pass off copies as the real thing tho.

 

[JohnnyB53]

OMG -- I like the overlapping Fender-style tuners on the back of the headstock

Apparently they don't bother to measure and mark before drilling. Check out the blonde version:

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[user362432]

Apparently they don't bother to measure and mark before drilling. Check out the blonde version:

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That's just Beta version. Wait couple of years and you are going to have serious problem to identify what's what.

On other topic, people are more excited about 20 years old Tokai than Japanese Fender!

I don't want to start war again (like couple of months earlier on Fender issue). But, I am telling you - many manufacturers are doing their dirty things all over the place. I am (that's my opinion) 100% believer that most of the Fenders, and Gibsons are coming from China. As well as the others (PRS, Ibanez, you name it). Ric needs to reconsider their business politic before they go belly up. Building artificially price to the level of unbelievability has some consequences. Time will tell.
Personally, I ignore anything with Fender or Gibson sticker. SX is pure example what is the World today.

 

[Tarrbot]

I don't want to start war again ... I am (that's my opinion) 100% believer that most of the Fenders, and Gibsons are coming from China. As well as the others (PRS, Ibanez, you name it). Ric needs to reconsider their business politic before they go belly up. Building artificially price to the level of unbelievability has some consequences. Time will tell.
Personally, I ignore anything with Fender or Gibson sticker. SX is pure example what is the World today.

I don't think you fully understand Rickenbacker's position here.

It's like Harley-Davidson was in the 90s. H-D dealers inflated prices while the factory limited production to x amount of units.

This was intentional. The reasoning was H-D would eventually have to compete against itself on the used market if they flooded the market with a lot of bikes.

Likewise, Rickenbacker would have to compete with itself on the used market if it opened the floodgates and started pumping out 150,000 basses a month.

Sure, they might sell all of them in the first year but after that who will be buying them?

Right now they're in one of those enviable positions whereby the orders are backlogged and continue to pile up and they don't have to compete with themselves on the used market because every used Rickenbacker sells within hours unless the seller is asking too much--which happens.

Fender and Gibson wished they were in this same position but they aren't. I can go to any pawn shop and find a Fender or a Gibson... used. You'll search for a month of Sundays before you find a Rickenbacker in a pawn shop unless you just get lucky.

 

[Jerry Ziarko]

There's a natural finish "rick" hanging out at a pawn shop here in town. The pickups both look close but not quite the same as I'm used to seeing. It's also got only one jack... I'd love to go in there and tell them it's not worth the $2500 they're asking nor was it worth the $1500 or so they probably paid the guy who sold it to them... Would be sweet revenge after I got yelled at for checking out the junk hamer slammer bass they've got.

That may be an early 60's model. If the neck is very thin front to back at the first couple of frets, that might the real deal.

 

[user362432]

I don't think you fully understand Rickenbacker's position here.

It's like Harley-Davidson was in the 90s. H-D dealers inflated prices while the factory limited production to x amount of units.

This was intentional. The reasoning was H-D would eventually have to compete against itself on the used market if they flooded the market with a lot of bikes.

Likewise, Rickenbacker would have to compete with itself on the used market if it opened the floodgates and started pumping out 150,000 basses a month.

Sure, they might sell all of them in the first year but after that who will be buying them?

Right now they're in one of those enviable positions whereby the orders are backlogged and continue to pile up and they don't have to compete with themselves on the used market because every used Rickenbacker sells within hours unless the seller is asking too much--which happens.

Fender and Gibson wished they were in this same position but they aren't. I can go to any pawn shop and find a Fender or a Gibson... used. You'll search for a month of Sundays before you find a Rickenbacker in a pawn shop unless you just get lucky.

Ric from one side and Fender + Gibson are on 2 opposite positions. Ric is trying to make some kind of make-over, rebirth of old fame at their own way. Fender and Gibson are in corporate mode. Both sides are doing different approach. I don't like either.

Ric should do more production and improve their lines of basses. In USA you might find some of them or wait for a months to get new one for ridiculous price. Rest of the world is completely ignored. Try to find Ric in Europe or elsewhere...

Let's do the math - 30 guitars/month per $2000 = $60 000
There is not enough money to move on to the next level. If they do 300/month per $1000, that would be $300 000 and they would have some money to put aside and do some improvement. 1000/month per $800 = $800 000. Quite enough to come up with enough money to make new models 5 strings, 4&5 fret-less, 6 strings, active/passive more colors and still keep the old line.

Doing business at this way is just going to destroy them in just few years. But, it's none of my business. I am quite happy with other instruments I can afford, play and trade.

 

[Tarrbot]

Ric from one side and Fender + Gibson are on 2 opposite positions. Ric is trying to make some kind of make-over, rebirth of old fame at their own way. Fender and Gibson are in corporate mode. Both sides are doing different approach. I don't like either.

Ric should do more production and improve their lines of basses. In USA you might find some of them or wait for a months to get new one for ridiculous price. Rest of the world is completely ignored. Try to find Ric in Europe or elsewhere...

Let's do the math - 30 guitars/month per $2000 = $60 000
There is not enough money to move on to the next level. If they do 300/month per $1000, that would be $300 000 and they would have some money to put aside and do some improvement. 1000/month per $800 = $800 000. Quite enough to come up with enough money to make new models 5 strings, 4&5 fret-less, 6 strings, active/passive more colors and still keep the old line.

Doing business at this way is just going to destroy them in just few years. But, it's none of my business. I am quite happy with other instruments I can afford, play and trade.

It's just not that simple. Basic economies of scale I see you have knowledge of but you're forgetting some other economies of scale. Those are called deficits. For each number you go up, the scale of material, labor, building (storage and construction), utility costs, taxes and others go up.

For Rickenbacker to scale the way you suggest would mean offshoring its labor force... something I'm pretty sure they do not want to do.

Like I said in my last post, if Rickenbacker scaled their production it wouldn't be long before everyone had a Rickenbacker and thus it would devalue a new Rickenbacker. Currently, demand is high so they are able to put production wherever it is they feel comfortable with. So, if you ramp up production, desirability goes down. And desirability isn't something you can purchase or even buy back if it drops.

If I was looking out for the long-term health of the company, I sure wouldn't be producing much more instruments than they are producing now. It's just not a "desired" long term business plan.

I say "much more" in production terms but if it were me, I'd probably be producing almost as much as I could realistically sell in a year and not be as far behind as they presumably are.

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Herby made one:

The company alledegedly became later Heerby and then Ibanez.

The headstock on mine isn't original obviously, but the TRC has Herby Custom Bass on it, not Rickenbacker.

These are great basses, vastly underrated IMHO.

Regards
Sam

 

[Ken R]

I had a late 60's early 70's Univox Rickenfaker. It was stereo, neck thru, toaster p/u, and the truss rod cover was identical to the ric, except it said UNIVOX. It looked, felt and sounded like a ric. I was not a ric fan so I sold it. I should have kept it.
One of a few I wish I still had.

Ken R