What Constitutes a Professional Musician?

[fdeck]

What happens when you hire a professional electrician or plumber? You know that they will show up with the training and tools to do the job, without needing any supervision or checking to make sure they did a good job. They may be the only person on site who even understands what needs to be done. You won't waste your money having to call them a second time.

If you try to tell them how to do it, they will politely tell you to mind your own job.

You don't expect them to be creative or artistic. They are unlikely to invent some new component or technique. There are people who invent new things related to electricity or plumbing, called scientists and engineers, but that's a different job category.

There are people who work on electrical things in factories, called technicians or assemblers, who not professionals, but are directed by engineers and professionals.

Just thinking out loud.

I would call myself a serious amateur. However, when I get called to play a gig, I try to do a professional quality job, and I try to bring the same skills that a pro would bring.

 

[CoffeeLove]

I'd say that 20-30% is about right. What is the alternative? Are we gonna say someone only making 49% of their income from music an amateur?

Yeah, that was just a random percentage I through out there. Some would say it needs to be 100%, but I think anyone good enough to make 30% of a "legitimate" living (paying their own rent and other bills) over a period of time has got to have some skills, and probably other professional attributes. Who knows, interesting to hear the different perspectives.

 

[CoffeeLove]

I vote cheesecake. If it’s in the room, I’m eating it.
On topic; people can call themselves whatever they want... but to be defined somewhat accurately as a professional, it needs to be your primary thing. I’m a working musician, as in doing a few gigs a month. It doesn’t pay my bills, only barely covers my equipment and expenses... but I would never consider myself professional.

Yep, same here. I averages 2 to 3 gigs a month (pre covid) with a solid local band, but by no means a professional. I make my living elsewhere, and in that area a professional.

 

[ELG60]

I'm pondering this and after a bit of thought, I offer a proposition that if a musician makes a "substantial" amount of their living from playing or creating music, they are a professional.

To explain: let's consider a player who works a 9-5 basic job in order to pay most of their bills, but needs to gig a couple of nights a week or more to make ends meet/live more comfortably , then I'd consider them to be a professional regardless of the percentages involved.

In a different scenario, let's take a professional . . . Whether an engineer, attorney, teacher, line cook, or insurance adjuster . . . If they don't rely upon their gigs to make ends meet, then I would consider music to be their avocation rather than their vocation and therefore they are not a professional no matter the relative skill levels.

 

[arbiterusa]

If it isn't what's on your tax return under "occupation" it is not your profession.

look no further. This is the definition.

 

[Lagado]

You can tell the pros, they look thinner during the winter months.

 

[Wasnex]

@CoffeeLove it really depends upon how you define a profession.

IMHO you could define anyone who get's paid to play as a professional, and in one sense I would agree.

But if you go by the hoity toity definition of a profession. much more is typically required, and even most people who become filthy rich as musicians don't qualify in the purest sense as professionals.

For example my HR studies defined profession in similar terms to this definition:

A Profession is a disciplined group of individuals who adhere to ethical standards and who hold themselves out as, and are accepted by the public as possessing special knowledge and skills in a widely recognised body of learning derived from research, education and training at a high level, and who are prepared to apply this knowledge and exercise these skills in the interest of others. It is inherent in the definition of a Profession that a code of ethics governs the activities of each Profession. Such codes require behaviour and practice beyond the personal moral obligations of an individual. They define and demand high standards of behaviour in respect to the services provided to the public and in dealing with professional colleagues. Further, these codes are enforced by the Profession and are acknowledged and accepted by the community.

Source: What is a Profession? | Professions Australia - Australian Council of Professions (ACoP)

Something that is not stated but is inferred is the existence of associated professional organizations that have a responsibility for enforcing standards and censuring members who commit egregious violations. For example Bar Associations and Medical Boards serve this purpose for lawyers and doctors respectively. About the closest organizations I can think of for musicians are educational institutions, unions, and music/education societies and associations.
​

During the middle of my military career there was a push to "professionalize" the enlisted force and we were taught to think of ourselves in terms similar to the definition above. Since I was a military musician, this is fairly close to the philosophy I brought to the job. For tax purposes I was considered military, even though my job title was electronics tech, bass, audio, and manager at different times in my career.

I also occasionally did civilian jobs with civilian bands. I did not necessary have to hold myself to all of the same professional standards as a military member, but I still considered myself a professional musician and entered that on my tax returns, even though the income was only a small fraction of my total income. This is more inline with the idea of get paid and I am a professional.

..."punctual, courteous, committed" these are qualities a professional are typically expected to posses, by the definition above. However, IMHO many people who consider themselves professional musicians are totally devoid of these qualities.

 

[LBS-bass]

There are a couple of different definitions for "profession." One rather old-fashioned definition is an advanced, studied occupation, such as physician or attorney. In other words, not a tradesman or a craftsman.

I don't think that's the definition we're looking at here, though. You can have work professionally done- wedding photography, for example- without hiring someone in one of the traditional "professions" do to it. I think we're looking at a broader definition that is closer to the word "occupation."

Someone asked me once if the fact that I once played music for a living meant I am a professional musician now. I said no. I am actually a far better player today than I was in 1985, but I haven't played professionally for many years and likely never will again. I still hold myself to professional standards, but I'm not a professional.

 

[BadSanta1281]

You're a professional when you've lost your amateur status for the Musician Olympics.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Curious what people think about this one. I usually consider a "professional" of any kind, including music, to be someone that makes a reasonable portion of their living from the profession itself (either in the past or present). Might only be 20 to 30 percent of their income (maybe more), but still a decent percentage of total income, and enough to pay their own bills.

I know a person that regularly claims to be a professional musician, and has moderate skills as a singer-songwriter, but makes very little money doing it (1 or 2 low paying gigs a month), and is only somewhat known in our area, but definitely not beyond our small town. I have no plans to burst his bubble, this just got me wondering what other people view as a professional musician.

Peace

So in your opinion, semi-pros are not pros? The reason I ask is, I am more than good enough to make a living playing music...for me. Am I good enough to provide for a family of 4, living in a decent safe neighborHood with good schools, and pay for things like our health insurance, and a retirement fund? That is debatable.

That said, I consider myself a pro. I don’t think it matters at all how much money you make, and how often you play. When people are paying their hard earned cash to see you play, you are a pro.

 

[bassliner50]

If you do your own setup...

 

[buldog5151bass]

Lots of egos here. If you can (and do) change the oil on your car, you are not a professional mechanic.

 

[LBS-bass]

So in your opinion, semi-pros are not pros? The reason I ask is, I am more than good enough to make a living playing music...for me. Am I good enough to provide for a family of 4, living in a decent safe neighborHood with good schools, and pay for things like our health insurance, and a retirement fund? That is debatable.

That said, I consider myself a pro. I don’t think it matters at all how much money you make, and how often you play. When people are paying their hard earned cash to see you play, you are a pro.

For me this is a tough call. I think there's a place for a "semi-pro" category that encompasses everything a pro does, including getting paid to perform or play. I don't really care if you want to call yourself a professional musician at that point, even if you're teaching math during the day, but I think that someone who works full-time in music might disagree with that.

I personally don't want to call myself that, because I know what it's like to be on the road and playing three sets five nights a week, and that's not what I do anymore. There's a lot involved in playing for a living besides a paycheck.

 

[LBS-bass]

Lots of egos here. If you can (and do) change the oil on your car, you are not a professional mechanic.

But what if your neighbor paid you to change his oil?

 

[buldog5151bass]

But what if your neighbor paid you to change his oil?

I think you and I are in agreement here - it has to be your profession, not your hobby that puts a few bucks in your pocket.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Anyone who makes a living via making music is a professional musician.

 

[JimmyM]

I've known some very unprofessional pro musicians who get paid well. Axl Rose, for example. I don't think he ever did a show on time till the reunion tour and the AC/DC tour. So yeah, it's all about the money.

 

[MVE]

I've had threads on here about this and here is what I learned.

My own personal take is that you can't call yourself a professional anything unless it's something you make your living at. It's the tax return test. If it isn't what's on your tax return under "occupation" it is not your profession.

That being said, there are many here who mix it up with behavior. And that's quite a reasonable thing to do. You can behave in a professional manner, i.e. take it seriously and do all the things that show you take it very seriously as a craft, and play at a level that would get you paying gigs if that's what you wanted to chase after as a living.

Many people here will argue that this makes you a professional. I would quibble just a bit and say that it makes you pro-level in your attitude and abilities, but the word "profession" has a specific meaning. So when I say I used to play professionally that means something to you... it means I made my living in music. Otherwise the term "play professionally" has no meaning at all. It could mean almost anything.

You can be a teacher without gigs and be a professional musician if you are a music teacher. But if you are otherwise not putting "musician" on your tax return, you are not a professional musician.

My definition only (well, that and the dictionary )

I agree with everything except calling a music teacher a “professional musician”. A music teacher is a “professional music teacher” not a “professional musician”. If you’re not paying your bills playing shows or recording, then you’re not a professional musician.

 

[Wasnex]

There are a couple of different definitions for "profession." One rather old-fashioned definition is an advanced, studied occupation, such as physician or attorney. In other words, not a tradesman or a craftsman.

I don't think that's the definition we're looking at here, though. You can have work professionally done- wedding photography, for example- without hiring someone in one of the traditional "professions" do to it. I think we're looking at a broader definition that is closer to the word "occupation."

Someone asked me once if the fact that I once played music for a living meant I am a professional musician now. I said no. I am actually a far better player today than I was in 1985, but I haven't played professionally for many years and likely never will again. I still hold myself to professional standards, but I'm not a professional.

IMHO there are really so many answer that each person has to decide for themselves. Also, there are so many dissimilar types of music professionals. For example I would say that a headlining musician who makes big money is a professional, but they may barely meet any of the more academic requirements of being a professional. For example they may be entirely self taught and not necessarily even that competent of a musician from a technical stand point. But if they can cover the part, or fill a role, and happen to be associated with a few hits that people want to hear, they may make big money for awhile.

Then you have people who have an advanced music degree, belong to professional organizations, gig regularly, etc, but most of their income is from teaching and giving lessons and/or something like providing instrument repair services. Do you call these people professional musicians, when they are actually primarily teachers or instrument repair techs? Keep in mind this type of musician meets many more of the requirements of the academic definitions of professional.

Back when I was active, I had the idea that gigs had to provide some balance of personal enjoyment and monetary compensation. If the gig was very enjoyable I would be willing to work for less. As the pleasure factor decreased, I would require more money to be tempted to do the gig. Perhaps the ironic thing is I never had the expectation or dream, that I would make a living as a musician, but somehow it worked out in a way. The thing is, enjoyment and money are both forms of compensation, but professionals require extrinsic forms compensation, typically money; whereas amateurs are typically compensated intrinsically through enjoyment or satisfaction in a job well done. One thing is for certain, I have never lost sleep over this question because I don't think it really matters on philosophical level. Either you get paid or you have fun, or maybe both.

Perhaps it would be helpful to think of "professional" as more of a continuum rather than an absolute term. The more characteristics of a professional you posses, the more professional you are. That being said, the most basic characteristic IMHO is getting paid to work. Technically in most cases, if you have additional income as a musician, you are supposed to claim it on your taxes. So from the IRS's perspective I believe you would be considered a professional as a paid gigging musician.

 

[DWBass]

Meh! You can be a professional musician without being a full time professional musician. I personally received a 1099 for a reasonable amount of money for 2019 and had to pay taxes on it and itemized stuff including new gear/assessories, mileage, food and housing. I feel like a professional. In reality......semi-pro. YMMV!