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What Constitutes a Professional Musician?

What Constitutes a Professional Musician?

  • Earns a reasonable portion of their income from music (maybe 20 to 30 % at some point in life)

    Votes: 110 40.4%
  • Posesses the skills that other professionals would consider a professional level

    Votes: 43 15.8%
  • All the other stuff. Exp: punctual, courteous, committed, etc... but lacking the other two mentioned

    Votes: 10 3.7%
  • None of the above

    Votes: 70 25.7%
  • Cheesecake

    Votes: 39 14.3%

  • Total voters
    272
Meh! You can be a professional musician without being a full time professional musician. I personally received a 1099 for a reasonable amount of money for 2019 and had to pay taxes on it and itemized stuff including mileage, food and housing. I feel like a professional. In reality......semi-pro. YMMV!

Yes, I've known guys who were easily up to the level but chose the security of the day job. I don't blame them, they ate quite a bit better than I did...
 
I agree with everything except calling a music teacher a “professional musician”. A music teacher is a “professional music teacher” not a “professional musician”. If you’re not paying your bills playing shows or recording, then you’re not a professional musician.
So you're saying that a music teacher is not a musician, then.
 
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IMHO there are really so many answer that each person has to decide for themselves. Also, there are so many dissimilar types of music professionals. For example I would say that a headlining musician who makes big money is a professional, but they may barely meet any of the more academic requirements of being a professional. For example they may be entirely self taught and not necessarily even that competent of a musician from a technical stand point. But if they can cover the part, or fill a role, and happen to be associated with a few hits that people want to hear, they may make big money for awhile.

Then you have people who have an advanced music degree, belong to professional organizations, gig regularly, etc, but most of their income is from teaching and giving lessons and/or something like providing instrument repair services. Do you call these people professional musicians, when they are actually primarily teachers or instrument repair techs? Keep in mind this type of musician meets many more of the requirements of the academic definitions of professional.

Back when I was active, I had the idea that gigs had to provide some balance of personal enjoyment and monetary compensation. If the gig was very enjoyable I would be willing to work for less. As the pleasure factor decreased, I would require more money to be tempted to do the gig. Perhaps the ironic thing is I never had the expectation or dream, that I would make a living as a musician, but somehow it worked out in a way. The thing is, enjoyment and money are both forms of compensation, but professionals require extrinsic forms compensation, typically money; whereas amateurs are typically compensated intrinsically through enjoyment or satisfaction in a job well done. One thing is for certain, I have never lost sleep over this question because I don't think it really matters on philosophical level. Either you get paid or you have fun, or maybe both.

Perhaps it would be helpful to think of "professional" as more of a continuum rather than an absolute term. The more characteristics of a professional you posses, the more professional you are. That being said, the most basic characteristic IMHO is getting paid to work. Technically in most cases, if you have additional income as a musician, you are supposed to claim it on your taxes. So from the IRS's perspective I believe you would be considered a professional as a paid gigging musician.

Last time I checked, the IRS only had one line for me to list my occupation. So if I'm still working at the University as I was up until a few years ago and also playing a few gigs, my gig money goes under miscellaneous income and my occupation is listed as Analyst.

There are a lot of factors that could go into being a professional. Income is certainly one. People have pointed out that many people making their living in music don't behave very well, so perhaps behavior is debatable. Again, for me that falls under the heading of professionalism but doesn't necessarily define an actual professional.

That's where I guess I differ from the idea that there's a continuum. For me it's very clear. You can be very professional in your demeanor and that's laudable but your professionalism is a separate thing from your occupation. But yes, it's certainly all debatable.

As someone who used to travel to play, being available was a professional requirement. A lot of people who play locally and get paid do to it are holding day jobs; they would not be able to meet that professional requirement. As I said earlier, there's a lot to being a full-time musician besides the paycheck. For me, all of that was part of the package. I did not have the capacity to do something else and play music when my calendar permitted or when I felt like it, because I needed to be where the gigs were. Nobody was calling me up asking me if I was available on such and such a day. Shows were booked and we went and played them. It was my job.

I sure don't ever want it to be my job again, so I'm happy to no longer be a professional, though I like to think that my professionalism is still intact.
 
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When I was younger - even though I did not get a union card. For maybe a year, made 65 - 70% from gigs, demo and jingle recording gigs and small tours but had to supplement by working in pre-press and digital archiving and restoration. I did not put musician in my tax return because too much income in cash. In NYC and LA Union card was required in many instances. It was a short period of my life. My friend in SF CA only did singing with pre-recorded music but she made all her income doing that and she put musician even though she did not have union card. She was actually a good jazz guitarist but can do multi-lingual singing. A friend who does tax accounting in LA told me one of her clients, a member of a nationally acclaimed band listed himself as an entertainer some years in the 1040 form.
 
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I used to play six nights a week in my youth, I considered myself a professional musician because I fulfilled all the requirements, technique, reading etc.

I quickly realised as I got older that although it paid my expenses it was not a good way to raise a family so I studied and took a day job and cut back on the gigs, the gig requirements were the same though so still had to play well and read, own good gear and turn up on time.

So it's a little hard to define because are we talking about the level of proficiency or level of income earned from music? Right now I don't have a job or gigs so has my professionalism disappeared? I know guys who gig as their only source of income but couldn't read a note to save their lives, are they professional musicians?

You can be a pro player without it being your full time career so maybe we should talk about pro level playing and being a career musician.
 
I'm surprised cheesecake hasn't gotten so many votes. I really enjoy it.
Larry Graham, Graham Cracker Crust? Coincidence? They're both "buttery".

This is a pretty blurry line. If you can pay your way, whatever that is, you are a professional. If you get $25 off the door once a month I'm not so sure I'd call that "professional". So split the difference? When I was able to not work a day job and buy a vehicle and pay bills with music money that was the first time I considered myself professional. (Insert jab here) I do not believe "professional" and supremely talented are interchangeable. I do not believe there is a requirement to have high technical knowledge or ability to be professional. Yes, it takes that to first chair in the symphony, but plenty successful musicians are not exceptionally trained. I believe if you have another wage paying job and also sufficiently supplement your income you are still a professional. I think plenty people we think of as successful professionals are really scraping below the poverty line after expenses. So are they professionals? When The Melvins opened for my high school punk band and I bought their vinyl singles for several of my friends to help them buy gas for the van because they got paid less than 4 greasy teenagers they were professionals. Paul McCartney (before he died and got replaced by William Shears) was a professional. Miles Davis was extraordinarily gifted but if you're not a jazz fan he could kinda sound like a slipping alternator belt. Professional. Greg Ginn (Black Flag) has played professionally for about 40 years. Love him to death but he ain't Jeff Beck.
Anyway, if you are in that position where music is steering your life decisions and are making steady money you are a professional whether you are famous or wealthy or living in a stinky van.
 
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Curious what people think about this one. I usually consider a "professional" of any kind, including music, to be someone that makes a reasonable portion of their living from the profession itself (either in the past or present). Might only be 20 to 30 percent of their income (maybe more), but still a decent percentage of total income, and enough to pay their own bills.

I know a person that regularly claims to be a professional musician, and has moderate skills as a singer-songwriter, but makes very little money doing it (1 or 2 low paying gigs a month), and is only somewhat known in our area, but definitely not beyond our small town. I have no plans to burst his bubble, this just got me wondering what other people view as a professional musician.

Peace

“Professional” by definition means it’s your profession: what you do for a living.

An arc welder who plays guitar and always shows up to rehearsal on time isn’t a professional musician: he’s an arc welder who plays guitar and has manners ;)

Skill level is also immaterial: there are hobbyists in a variety of crafts equally skilled to some of the professionals in those fields, and some professional musicians are very pedestrian in terms of their technical skill level.

A dental hygienist who takes incredible photos isn’t a professional photographer, unless they’re also being paid for their photographs.
 
Pino can't read a single note.
That is true, how many of us are a Pino though?

There are always exceptions and guys that are exceptional players that will work in the industry for their unique attributes. Most of us don't fall in that category though and usually you're hired to fulfil the job role of bass player.

I got called for a lot of gigs because I had a reputation for being able to jump in at the 11th hour and play the show, if I couldn't read I would not have gotten those gigs.

But I still wish I could play like Pino. :)
 
That is true, how many of us are a Pino though?

There are always exceptions and guys that are exceptional players that will work in the industry for their unique attributes. Most of us don't fall in that category though and usually you're hired to fulfil the job role of bass player.

I got called for a lot of gigs because I had a reputation for being able to jump in at the 11th hour and play the show, if I couldn't read I would not have gotten those gigs.

But I still wish I could play like Pino. :)

I agree, Pino and others who have that individual capacity tend to be outliers. For sure, it's better to be able to read, that's a no brainer, but it certainly isn't everything.
 
In NM our AFM number is 618 and NYC is 802 (The biggest in the world probably). All this behavior people talk about is not required, maybe implied. All you need is a band/group name or manager name. Most professional orchestra folks are members. Rowdy spoiled no musical knowledge members of a rock group may not be considered professional by straight folks here but all they really need to do is pay the dues and the manager will deal with everything else from contracts to the artist not pissing people off or tune his guitar. That's the way I understand it. Not sure if venues like the Filmore require AFM membership regardless.
 
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I agree, Pino and others who have that individual capacity tend to be outliers. For sure, it's better to be able to read, that's a no brainer, but it certainly isn't everything.
Indeed, you need a lot of other attributes to go along with it to be a pro. Fundamentals like good time, feel and an appropriate attitude.

I’m not taking anything away from anyone who can play but can’t read, there are differing requirements in gigs and if you fulfil those you’ve got the gig.

I guess all I’m saying is that pro level skills don’t disappear when you’re doing something else for a living. We had a guy who was a sales manager for a large company get called into a rehearsal one night before a tour, he came in after his day job, got handed the charts and just slotted right in. He hadn’t played in a band for years so maybe not a career musician but a professional none the less.
 
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Indeed, you need a lot of other attributes to go along with it to be a pro. Fundamentals like good time, feel and an appropriate attitude.

I’m not taking anything away from anyone who can play but can’t read, there are differing requirements in gigs and if you fulfil those you’ve got the gig.

I guess all I’m saying is that pro level skills don’t disappear when you’re doing something else for a living. We had a guy who was a sales manager for a large company get called into a rehearsal one night before a tour, he came in after his day job, got handed the charts and just slotted right in. He hadn’t played in a band for years so maybe not a career musician but a professional none the less.

I don't classify to be honest, as far as I'm concerned, if you can walk the walk, that'll do it. Job or no day job. Give it a name...
 
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I’m guessing most true pro players would not go anywhere near a discussion with a non full time pro about whether or not they make enough money from playing to qualify as a “pro”. Its the kind of question that determining an answer for does not particularly change anything. You do what you want to do with music and that’s it.
 
Last time I checked, the IRS only had one line for me to list my occupation. So if I'm still working at the University as I was up until a few years ago and also playing a few gigs, my gig money goes under miscellaneous income and my occupation is listed as Analyst.

There are a lot of factors that could go into being a professional. Income is certainly one. People have pointed out that many people making their living in music don't behave very well, so perhaps behavior is debatable. Again, for me that falls under the heading of professionalism but doesn't necessarily define an actual professional.

That's where I guess I differ from the idea that there's a continuum. For me it's very clear. You can be very professional in your demeanor and that's laudable but your professionalism is a separate thing from your occupation. But yes, it's certainly all debatable.

As someone who used to travel to play, being available was a professional requirement. A lot of people who play locally and get paid do to it are holding day jobs; they would not be able to meet that professional requirement. As I said earlier, there's a lot to being a full-time musician besides the paycheck. For me, all of that was part of the package. I did not have the capacity to do something else and play music when my calendar permitted or when I felt like it, because I needed to be where the gigs were. It was my job.

I sure don't ever want it to be my job again, so I'm happy to no longer be a professional, though I like to think that my professionalism is still intact.

It's been long time since I did pay gigs, but I remember having to do a separate schedule for musician income, and having to input some sort of numerical code that indicated what industry the income was earned in. It was not specific to musician, rather I think it was more like entertainment industry. I believe my primary occupation was simply military.

The idea of using a continuum to describe someone as more or less professional is actually from one (or more) of my business management classes. Although I think the class(es) related the continuum to whether an occupation is a profession or not. Years back I believe some of my Professional Military Education courses used the continuum concept as well.

I can't really debate your other points, because I think it depends upon how one defines the term professional whether I agree with you or not, as I have no interest in proving it one way or another at this point in my life.

Now if I were looking to become a professional musician and needed to meet some sort of requirements of the profession in order to get a job, then I would definitely be concerned; at least for myself. But that hurdle is already behind me ;); so I will leave it to others to fidget over.

For context, I suppose I would have to say I was a professional military musician, which IMHO fits the academic definition of a profession fairly well.

On a tangential idea. The members of a profession or generally who actually defines the profession and any requirements expected of professionals. Along those lines, as I was retiring, the senior leaders in my careerfield were in the process of rewriting our job qualification standards, which leads credence to the idea of professional military musicians per the academic definition.

There are also several Air National Guard (ANG) Bands who must comply with the same job qualification standards as the active-duty bands. However, unless activated, they only get together on a part time basis. I still think of them as professional military musicians, but they are not full-time and typically have full-time jobs doing something other than their ANG duties. This fit's with my idea of the continuum fairly well. The ANG musicians are expected to do almost everything the active duty musicians do, just not as often. They probably also have some responsibilities that active duty musicians don't as well.

Anyway, I plan to unsub at this point, but I will respond if anyone does something to pull me back...and then I will try to unsub again.

Have a great day! :hyper:
 
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So you're saying that a music teacher is not a musician, then.
No, I’m not saying that at all.
Anyone who plays an instrument, sings or spends time creating music is a musician. And professional music teachers are very often the finest musicians of all.
But if they are not recording or performing for a living, they are not a “professional musician.”