what did you think when fender started making instruments in mexico

[1958Bassman]

Just got my hands a new mim p bass lpb finish gold anodized pg maple fretboard I love it but what did you guys think when the mim stamp first showed up on your basses was it disappointing or do you think they started making cheap guitars or did you not care , also before the mexican plant opened did they sell American guitars for about the price of a mim now or were all new fenders $1000+ or did they use cheaper parts but still MIA , I want to know so old people tell me

You mean made in Mexico, vs Made in America, by Mexicans, using mostly the same parts? The CA and AZ factories are at most a couple of hours from the border, by car. I have seen more bad American made instruments than bad Mexican ones, even as far back as about '72 or '73, when I worked at a music store. We got quite a few Gibson seconds and at the time, Norlin was about the worst thing that happened to the US music industry. CBS buying Fender is right up there, though.

They don't need to use cheaper parts when the instrument is MIM, but they may be making certain models there to hit a price point. I have a Baja Tele and it has a finish flaw, but that's the only thing I noticed, other than a few nit-picky things. I have seen many other Teles and other brands of guitars that were far more $ but made much worse.

 

[1958Bassman]

+1 phillybass, time to put an end to this "they took our jobs" myth.

The United States, through avarice and sloth, gave our jobs away. No country "took" anything.

It's the modern global market in which we so eagerly engaged, and it also provides a substantial tax loophole. This is not even a political statement; members of all political persuasions engage in this business model. It's just an economic fact, unfortunate as it may seem to some.

If you're in a union, find out what the total of your compensation costs the company and compare it to the national average before you say the jobs were given away "through avarice and sloth". Then, ask yourself how many hours of labor it takes to build one of these instruments, multiply it by American wages and compare that with foreign wages. It's cheaper to ship the materials to a foreign country, make the products and ship them back than to take the materials and have it made in the US. My dad worked for Harley Davidson when they were owned by AMF and I wouldn't have hired any of the clowns he worked with because their attitude sucked so badly. All I ever heard was them ragging on about how much the company made compared to their pay. It was sickening, really. None of them had really difficult jobs and all made good money, yet they all voted for the strike in about '71. The pay, insurance, retirement benefits, disability insurance, product liability insurance and other costs all add up to numbers most workers never bother to think about.

"Sloth"? I know some slothful people but none are in management. You wouldn't want to work their schedule or be away from home as much as they are.

 

[georgestrings]

You mean made in Mexico, vs Made in America, by Mexicans, using mostly the same parts?

What "same parts" are you talking about??? - please be specific...


- georgestrings

 

[dStar]

Consider this: the average Mexican makes $10 a day, the average American makes $100 a day.,, no wonder MIA cost more than MIM.

Are MIA Fenders more expensive then other MIA basses? No, not at all, most MIA basses are more expensive ie Ricks, Lakland, Sadowsky etc.

Are MIA better than MIM, in my experience, yes. But not because of the nationality of those who built it, but because of Fenders business model,

Fenders business model is to have products at different price points, Squire, MIM, MIJ, MIA, Custom Shop. Quality is what sets the price points apart. It's a smart plan, something for everybody's wallet.

Do I think MIM can be as good as MIA, of course but only if Fender wants them to be, which of course they don't, they want the higher price point of the MIA.

Sure we all want a Custom Shop bass for the price of a Squire, but that's not going to happen.

 

[georgestrings]

I surely thought:
"wow: now I can finally afford me a Fender!"... or nearly something very much like that

Cheers,
Wallace

Pretty much the same thing here, hahaha!!! - I remember buying a MIM P Bass right around that time, actually... I had it for many years, and traded it to a friend - and he's still playing it...


- georgestrings

 

[wvbass]

I have seen more bad American made instruments than bad Mexican ones, even as far back as about '72 or '73, when I worked at a music store.

Did you say what you meant here? I highly doubt you were comparing MIM and MIA Fenders back in '72 or '73.

 

[georgestrings]

I thought "hey maybe now they will make some quality basses that don't feel clunky".

Boy was I wrong.

Never miss a chance to spread a little Fender hate, do ya???

Personally, I feel that Spector necks are quite a bit more "clunky" than a typical Fender Jazz, and many P basses...


- georgestrings

 

[placedesjardins]

what did you think when fender started making instruments in mexico

Not much. I was mainly playing guitar at the time.

 

[dudelove]

i didnt know about basses back then.
but then i realized that, there´s mim, i was little dissapointed. til´ i get my 9 year old jazz, then i said, what ever :]

 

[deeptubes]

I have 2 MIM's - '00 P Special Deluxe, '04 Dimension - and 2 MIA's - '84 P Elite II and '90 HM. My MIM's get much more play time than my MIA's. To put it in perspective, my MIM's need new strings, but my MIA's are like new.

 

[FileBass]

Greetings from the North,

I thought well now.....you got a choice. You can have your Fender made in Mexico by Mexicans or you can have it made in California by Mexicans It's all good.

Rezdog

+1 every fender lover need to better watch the
factory tour at tge very least! LOL

 

[mongo2]

Personally, I feel that Spector necks are quite a bit more "clunky" than a typical Fender Jazz, and many P basses...

Agreed, Warwick also has some clunky necks.

 

[smcd]

If you're in a union, find out what the total of your compensation costs the company and compare it to the national average before you say the jobs were given away "through avarice and sloth". Then, ask yourself how many hours of labor it takes to build one of these instruments, multiply it by American wages and compare that with foreign wages. It's cheaper to ship the materials to a foreign country, make the products and ship them back than to take the materials and have it made in the US. My dad worked for Harley Davidson when they were owned by AMF and I wouldn't have hired any of the clowns he worked with because their attitude sucked so badly. All I ever heard was them ragging on about how much the company made compared to their pay. It was sickening, really. None of them had really difficult jobs and all made good money, yet they all voted for the strike in about '71. The pay, insurance, retirement benefits, disability insurance, product liability insurance and other costs all add up to numbers most workers never bother to think about.

"Sloth"? I know some slothful people but none are in management. You wouldn't want to work their schedule or be away from home as much as they are.

It's not management, nor the hourly employees that are the root cause of jobs going to Mexico. It's the consumer that bears that responsibility. Most people jump for joy when they see low prices, not thinking or caring about what's behind the product they're buying (until THEIR jobs go overseas, of course).

Let's look at what it costs to produce in the US vs. Mexico....

Fender probably pays it's US workers $17/hr. Add to that health insurance costs of $500/employee/month (at LEAST). Add to that workman's comp insurance, liability insurance, unemployment insurance, hazardous waste disposal, local real estate taxes (probably $10,000/month).

Fender probably pays it's Mexican workers $14/day. None of those other costs come into play.

In China, wages are around $38/week. Try competing against that.

 

[josiah goldfish]

You can have your Fender made in Mexico by Mexicans or you can have it made in California by Mexicans

Haha
might have to make that my sig

 

[electracoyote]

It's not management, nor the hourly employees that are the root cause of jobs going to Mexico. It's the consumer that bears that responsibility. Most people jump for joy when they see low prices, not thinking or caring about what's behind the product they're buying (until THEIR jobs go overseas, of course).

Let's look at what it costs to produce in the US vs. Mexico....

Fender probably pays it's US workers $17/hr. Add to that health insurance costs of $500/employee/month (at LEAST). Add to that workman's comp insurance, liability insurance, unemployment insurance, hazardous waste disposal, local real estate taxes (probably $10,000/month).

Fender probably pays it's Mexican workers $14/day. None of those other costs come into play.

In China, wages are around $38/week. Try competing against that.

There are ways to keep jobs stateside and be competitive.

You can point the finger at whoever you chose, unions, management, consumers, whoever. Bottom line: We let our manufacturing jobs slip through our fingers.

It doesn't have to be this way.

 

[Draculea]

Hate me if you like (especially US citizens), but this is the fact of the matter:

MIM=MIA since Mexico is a country that belongs to a continent called... America! which happens to be not one country but several of them, located in North, Central and South America... didn't you ever take geography lessons?

Bottom line is, the discussion is focused on MIM -VS- MIUS Fender instruments.

Thank you for reading

Ps: I don't mean to start an argument with my post, it's a friendly one, and it says nothing but the true, despite your possible disagreement with it.

 

[Wallace320]

Pretty much the same thing here, hahaha!!! - I remember buying a MIM P Bass right around that time, actually... I had it for many years, and traded it to a friend - and he's still playing it...


- georgestrings

I dunno yours, but if you take a look at my profile, basses are not necessarily in chronological order, neither present gear nor past one.
Well: I ain't got it anymore, but my very first Fender was (actually "is", for he still got it) a MIM standard Precision. Solid black, maple fingerboard and three ply...

Cheers,
Wallace

 

[SoVeryTired]

Hate me if you like (especially US citizens), but this is the fact of the matter:

MIM=MIA since Mexico is a country that belongs to a continent called... America! which happens to be not one country but several of them, located in North, Central and South America... didn't you ever take geography lessons?

Bottom line is, the discussion is focused on MIM -VS- MIUS Fender instruments.

Thank you for reading

Ps: I don't mean to start an argument with my post, it's a friendly one, and it says nothing but the true, despite your possible disagreement with it.

Nice twist on the debate. So from where you're sat, they're both MINA!

 

[seang15]

Just got my hands a new mim p bass lpb finish gold anodized pg maple fretboard I love it but what did you guys think when the mim stamp first showed up on your basses was it disappointing or do you think they started making cheap guitars or did you not care , also before the mexican plant opened did they sell American guitars for about the price of a mim now or were all new fenders $1000+ or did they use cheaper parts but still MIA , I want to know so old people tell me

Longest Run on sentence ever!!

 

[Draculea]

Nice twist on the debate. So from where you're sat, they're both MINA!

Exactly! Anything made in any country that belongs to the American continent (America being not the same as United States) is MIA if you think about it objectively. But'll I'll run away before this turns into a political discussion