what did you think when fender started making instruments in mexico

[mongo2]

I thought, "Cool, a cheap bass to mess with and mod."

 

[SoVeryTired]

I can approach this from a more neutral position of not having any patriotic connection to US-made basses. I go with what feels, sounds and plays the best for my budget, regardless of where it's made. For my current budget that happens to mean high-end Chinese, but it could equally have meant Mexico or Japan.

I wasn't a guitarist, let alone a bassist, when MIM started. Oddly I did have a knee-jerk "not a real Fender" reaction when I heard that the Modern Players are MIC, without having even seen one. Which just goes to show how I can pick up unfounded prejudices just like everyone else.

 

[Bassbubble11]

The best bass I own is an MIM Jazz. I have upgraded the PUPs, electronics, wiring and
shielding. I have also tweaked the hell out of it. The neck is to die for and she looks and
plays like a dream. I would put this baby up against any MIA. I don't care where the headstock
says it's made.

@ Vinnyboonbots Cheap feeling? I think not. I have played a few of Fenders American offerings
recently and they don't hold up to there price at all. I can't believe what they ask for an instrument
that says MIA on the headstock just because it says MIA. I'm sorry but some MIA's are totally lacking
when you consider there cost.

 

[fisticuffs]

 

[phillybass101]

I am an American and a Vet. I served for 13 years in the U.S. Army and I'm not ashamed to admit that I too have no patriotic connection with gear made in America. If anyone should bear the brunt of this kind of frustration we must first start with Americans. The owners of these institutions of business such as Fender made the decision to make their instruments in other countries. No one took anything. It was given away. If I have any gripe it would be ok I can pay a cheaper price but I want real value for my money, not a piece of foreign crap. If I pay $400 for a foreign made bass of course the parts may not be as "good" as American but I expect the same build quality in terms of fit and finish and attention to detail etc. There is no excuse for a shoddy product in these terms. And this is what we have been offered (crap) in many situations. Also if you want me to buy American, don't make me have to pay an arm and a leg for something that has a lesser return in terms of what you try to sell me at the price you sell it to me. If I can buy a Squire VM JB or CL JB for $400. Why do I have pay $1400 for an American made product (parts bass made on an assembly line.) Help Americans buy American and come up with a decent and fair price. Todays dollar buys less than what it used to buy yet the cost of things still rise. I can't feel anything other than we Americans are getting jacked by our own American brethren. I paid money to American businesses for:

Brubaker Brute (china) decent basses for the money
Brubaker Brute Single Cut (china) most affordable SC on the planet
Geddy Lee Jazz Bass (japan) a decent bass. The list price is almost embarrasing
OLP MM 3 5 string (korea or china) I don't rememebr
Carlo Robelli Silver Sparkle 8 string bass (korea)
SX 75 JB copy (china)
Frankenbass Subraze made from parts made unknown (Subway Guitars)

These could have been made in America but hey there's the global economy. If foreign businesses can offer a product at a cheaper price, then American businesses may need to revamp their profit structures and try make more by selling more at a lower price (yeah like this is going to happen) and hire Americans to make their products. With the cost of living as it is, and the value of the dollar as it is, I can see why Americam businesses make things overseas. It's our own American fault.

 

[Bassmunnky]

Being alive in the 70s...this same question could have been asked about Japanese Fenders way back when. At one point, the Japanese version were superior and cheaper compared the the U.S. stuff.

I believe the 'made in a America' always equals 'better' is a myth.

And, to me, one of the coolest and best basses to come from Fender is the Road Worn.
Regardless of the doofery that goes on about Relic vs Non-Relic...it's a great bass, the quality is stellar and tone kicks ass.

Most Fender basses, regardless of country of origin, will work on stage and in the studio, unless there is some kind of blaring defect.

It's big fun to read the excruciating nitpicking of details of differences in Fender basses based on country..which, on one level is great, as I've learned more about bass construction from TB than any place else.

I think the 'stigma' of non-US Fenders only lives here on the forum. How many people here actually gig with a Mexican Fender and have had someone come up to you after a show and say "hey your tone blows, that must not be a US Fender"...

 

[SteveC]

The best bass I own is an MIM Jazz. I have upgraded the PUPs, electronics, wiring and
shielding.

But then it really isn't a MIM jazz any more is it?

 

[96tbird]

^^Revamp profit structures? How about wages? It's all about wages, land costs, overhead, taxes, etc. Profit structures in consumer product sector has.never driven pricing up. Overhead costs have. Usually beginning with labour costs.

 

[electracoyote]

+1 phillybass, time to put an end to this "they took our jobs" myth.

The United States, through avarice and sloth, gave our jobs away. No country "took" anything.

It's the modern global market in which we so eagerly engaged, and it also provides a substantial tax loophole. This is not even a political statement; members of all political persuasions engage in this business model. It's just an economic fact, unfortunate as it may seem to some.

 

[Bassbubble11]

But then it really isn't a MIM jazz any more is it?

Basses are all about the neck to me, so, yes it is MIM.
Changing PUPs, pots and caps has nothing to do with build
quality.

I love MIM Jazz necks so much I put one on a Squier VM
I own (the MIMs back up for gigs).

 

[Vinnyboonbots]

I had a MIM Deluxe Jazz. That bass was pretty stellar, the only reason I sold it is because I got it for a steal and bought it to flip for some quick cash.



Please explain to me how they feel cheap. As far as I know an American Standard has a maple neck and a body with a poly finish, just like a MIM. So after a set up I don't understand exactly how they would feel any different.

And how exactly are they "essentially Squiers "custom shop""? Custom shop instruments are built to the purchasers specification, the CVs are built on a line just like the MIMs

Not all CS are built to specs. There are many pre-built but considered "top of the line" so that's all I meant. Maybe the 62 reissue would be a better comparison.

As for the basses feeling cheap -- how would you describe a cheap feeling bass? It's just a feel -- and I'm in no way a gear snob. In fact, I think basses over 2K are generally overpriced and no better than something 1/2 of the price. But there's obviously a difference between those made in Mexico and the American Standard. I think the reason the Squiers are better is better quality control. I get the feeling they're trying to gain some credibility and status with the CV series.

Bottom line, if you find a MIM that works for you, that's all that matters. I have several basses and it's not always the most expensive ones that do the best job -- depending on the situation.

 

[Orpheus55]

I remember hearing similar critiques when the "post CBS" Fenders (circa '65) started taking a beating from all the pre-CBS owners. I have two MIJ Precisions and a pair of MIM Jazzes, one fretted ('87)and one fretless ('11) and I like them all. Worst bass I ever owned was a '78 MIA P, which I should have kept simply for the resale. At the time, I could hardly give it away.

 

[georgestrings]

It's quite apparent, at least to me, there is still some prejudice involved as far as American vs. foreign made instruments.

I don't think it's a matter of "prejudice" to state one's experiences in a factual manner - and IMO, American made instruments are of better quality than their foreign made counterparts *on average*, and by a pretty fair margin...


- georgestrings

 

[lpdeluxe]

I appreciate the fact that Fender, Gibson and others are selling decent instruments at a lower price point than the MIA models. Each company seems to work hard to keep the quality up on the offshore models, and it shows. I have owned a MIK G&L Tribute, a MII Squier Precision, a CIJ Precision, a MIM fretless Jazz, two MIM Ps, and a MIA P (and I've owned a couple of MIK Epiphone guitars as well). The only loser out of the bunch was the Indonesian one, which cost me all of $125. The ones I have kept are the CIJ, the MIM P (the well-regarded Classic '50s) and an AV '57. And I play the last two interchangeably, depending on what color I favor that particular day (fiesta red vs sunburst).

Brands depend on being able to serve all their potential customers, not just the well-to-do. Someone who is exposed to a decent lower end Fender may well trade up as he or she can. I know I did. I got that cheap Squier, in fact, to get my feet wet, so to speak, with an inexpensive Precision. In the event, I ended up with four Fender Ps at the same time, so it worked.

I favor MIA instruments, being at the point in my life when I think about what my kids will be able to sell my stuff for when I'm gone, so I have a nice ES-335 guitar, a couple of MIA Dobros, and so on.

But that MIM Classic '50s makes me smile every time I play it -- which, as it happens, was last night.

 

[Wallace320]

I don't think it's a matter of "prejudice" to state one's experiences in a factual manner - and IMO, American made instruments are of better quality than their foreign made counterparts *on average*, and by a pretty fair margin...


- georgestrings

I know it's forbidden to completely quote a preceeding post, but I definitely agree.

Cheers,
Wallace

 

[smcd]

If foreign businesses can offer a product at a cheaper price, then American businesses may need to revamp their profit structures and try make more by selling more at a lower price (yeah like this is going to happen) and hire Americans to make their products. With the cost of living as it is, and the value of the dollar as it is, I can see why Americam businesses make things overseas. It's our own American fault.

Huh?? Hire Americans to make products to compete against a country that pays it's workers 1/30th of American wages?? Well, the only way to compete is to cut the wages of US workers significantly. And I'm sure you'll be the first to volunteer for a pay cut.

 

[preside]

If it ain't made in America it's not REALLY a Fender, it's a clone with thier name on it. PS . I have a MIM Jazz and once I changed the Pickups and got rid of the thick finish, reworked the neck , It had some odd lumps, it turned into a cool bass.

 

[tbird99]

If it ain't made in America it's not REALLY a Fender, it's a clone with thier name on it. PS . I have a MIM Jazz and once I changed the Pickups and got rid of the thick finish, reworked the neck , It had some odd lumps, it turned into a cool bass.

That's kind if harsh don't you think? Technically it is a real fender because its fender product and if they decide to put they're name on something it is a real render if its licensed by fender its only a copy if another copy steals the design so believe what you want but it is a real fender and it seems stupid to me to pay $1000+ for a bass that is gonna get beat up by my clumsy self its not a luxury but it gets the job done and that's all I ask , the most expensive bass I own is a 95 Thunderbird and to me my mim fender is better mainly upper fret access but still just because its not the original doesn't mean its not good , you must fear change.
Peace

 

[garp]

I guess I was happy to know that with the MIMs, Fender had found yet another way to get its instruments into the hands of musicians who couldn’t afford the prices of American-made instruments. Today, some folks who could easily afford MIAs are buying MIMs instead. My first Fender was an MIJ Strat, so I’ve never held the perception that MIA Fenders are their top-of-the-line instruments. My current bass stable includes an MIA, a CIJ, and three MIMs.

If it ain't made in America it's not REALLY a Fender, it's a clone with thier name on it.

I respectfully disagree. By that logic, I guess one could also argue that a Camry built in Kentucky isn’t a real Toyota, because everyone knows that real Toyotas only come from Japan. And just wait ‘til EADS opens its Airbus assembly plant in Mobile, Alabama in 2015. Will those aircraft be Airbus clones? (The “real” ones are currently assembled in Toulouse, France from parts and subassemblies manufactured in 18 different countries — including the U.S.)

 

[Aussie Player]

I had a '92 MIM P bass and ditched it because of neck instability. It was dreadful and bowed very badly between the 3rd and 7th fret. When I reset the truss rod, it would 'sproing' out again.

I have had a '95 MIM for nearly 2 years and it is wonderfully stable and never moves.

Must be an individual thing.