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Double Bass What exactly IS the "Luthier's Prime Directive"?

#41
Originally posted by Jeff Bollbach
Nice entry, dude. To Pparaphrase Nnick-who the hell are you?
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Sorry Guys,
I didn't exactly know what to put in my profile. My name is Jerry Lynn, I've been involved in luthiery since the age of 14, I'm 23 now and I work for a small shop in N. Central PA. I spend a large portion of my day working on basses and I've discovered three things that irritate me about bass luthiery 1)Bad repairs that aren't easily reversable - ie epoxy and hardware fasteners 2) The fact that bass luthiery hasn't been on same par as violin luthiery in the past therefore it seems like your always playing "catch up" 3) Bass players with old busted up Kays who think they are the greatest thing ever.
I actually have a degree in Violin perf. from PSU, though I spent most of my in Jazz/Comp & arr. I've also got to add that this site kicks ass. If anyone wants to know more, message me.

-Jerry
 
#42
Originally posted by arnoldschnitzer
BTW, I've got two neck grafts in process right now: one was trashed by British Airways in a flight trunk; the other was knocked off its stand by a moronic sub-human home repair contractor. Neither was mangled by its owner's stupidity...
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I'll grant you that airline damage is not the owner's stupidity - except if the owner was not smart enough to have lots of insurance coverage. Now home repair contractors (also known as off duty firemen) are another matter. I wouldn't let any anyone I didn't know get any where near a bass of mine especially if he was tote'n hammers,etc.;)
 
#51
So many of the old Italians I come across have been cut, and no one seems to be bothered by it.
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It's good to hear that so many old Italians are owned by folks that want to have music played on them.

I'm sure it beats stretching a wire from a nail on a barn door, at least in portability if not in function.
 
#54
Originally posted by Rimas
what is meant by 'cutting down' a bass?
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Usually this refers to changing the shape of the shoulders of the bass. While the idea seems good for the player, it permanently changes the shape (certainly not reversible) so that it no longer looks like the maker envisioned. IMO this practice was greatly responsible for the creation of the so called luthier prime directive. It raises the question of weather a bass created by maker "X" is still a "X" instrument or is it now a "Y" bass since it was permanently modified by luthier "Y". From a historical standpoint, it is ashame that one has to travel to Vermillion, SD (National Music Museum - formerly the Shrine to Music Museum) to see any number of instuments in their original unmodified condition. And..even there you see the results of luthier modifed instruments originally made by the great classical makers such a Amati where the purfling is no longer symmetrical or other disfigurements made for the sake of some player a 100 or more years ago. Personally, I don't care if someone want to modify a factory made instrument, but I pray that there will still be a few unmodified classic age instruments left for people to admire in another 100 years.
 
#55
Playing devil's advocate; what if a nice old handmade bass is simply not playable, due to its shape or dimensions? For example, an ill-concieved 4/4 cello-shaped monster? Must it be consigned to the bass museum, or should a competent luthier help it be reborn as a playable instrument?
 
#56
Bob, there's a musical instrument museum in the basement of the Bridges Auditorium, campus of the Claremont Colleges, Claremont, CA. Certainly not as well know as the SD one but a wonderful afternoon. The curator is a friend and I get to tour the "backstage", some really interesting instruments.

AES, You must be refering to the dreaded "Frankenbass", correct? The one with the bolts in the neck? Or was that "Bassenstein" the one with the phenomanally padded shoulders?
 
#57
Arnold, Lou Kosma (of the Met orchestra, for the out-of-towners) owns the Lorenzelli pictured on page 84 of Elgar's 'Looking at the Double Bass.' He had Kolstein take at least 2 inches out of the back and top to slope the shoulders into playable dimensions. It was utterly unplayable beforehand. He let me play it at a lesson. It handles and sounds like a dream and it positively roars. There's not a doubt in my mind that the right thing was done. I think Jeff remembers it from his days at that shop. Lou told me that there was disagreement between Sam and Barrie over whether to make the change.
Then there's Pat Dougherty's (also with the Met)little Italian bass. Didn't you tell me that it appeared to be an approximately 300 year-old back and sides and a 200 year-old top? It's small but very sweet.
I've thrown out my back copies of Double Bassist, but I could swear some of their featured basses have shown evidence of major changes.
 
#58
Originally posted by arnoldschnitzer
Playing devil's advocate; what if a nice old handmade bass is simply not playable, due to its shape or dimensions? For example, an ill-concieved 4/4 cello-shaped monster? Must it be consigned to the bass museum, or should a competent luthier help it be reborn as a playable instrument?
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I would say that it would depend if the instrument were a historically significant instrument. As Jeff mentioned in an earlier post, there are Italian (and no doubt other nationalities) that were made by people who had no idea about the proper way to make an instrument, least of all a doublebass. On the other hand, if it was a genuine Bergonzi, Cerutti, Galliano, etc. - if it is unplayable, it should be in a museum and preserved for the future - not modified.
 
#59
Originally posted by mpm
Bob, there's a musical instrument museum in the basement of the Bridges Auditorium, campus of the Claremont Colleges, Claremont, CA. Certainly not as well know as the SD one but a wonderful afternoon.
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Sorry, I didn't mean to infer that SD was the only music museum in the country to see historic basses - just the first one that came to mind. I'll keep Claremont in mind for the next time I'm in CA. Do they have a good web page like Vermillion?
 
#60
Yeah, when i was in florence i got in trouble for taking pictures of stradivari and amati cellos. It was completely surreal.. these beautiful instruments right in front of you, but not a chance in hell youll ever get to touch em. Too bad they were in a display case, and not being played.

Theres a bass in Hammond Ashleys right now, I think its romanian, maybe, goin for aroun 15k. But in this case luthier Y actually built onto an old bass. you can see the old profile, probably of a half size, and how he added a few inches on top of it, making it closer to 3/4. Bryce, the sales guy, said that if a bass is repaired properly, than the value does not depreciate.

however modifying a historically significant instrument should be a crime, sort of like defacing a historical monument /document or something.
 

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