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What happened to Markbass popularity?
- Thread starter ThinCrappyTone
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- markbass
The R500 might just be my favorite amp of all time! I'm kicking myself for not buying one when they were around.
This is one of my beefs with Markbass though- their constantly revolving line of amps. Since their inception, they've discontinued and created more amp lines than I can keep track of. It's frustrating.
The other is the overseas thing. Yeah, I get it, it's the same thing, it shouldn't matter, etc. They moved their stuff to Asia to cut their production costs, yet, they charge me the same or more than when they first came out?
Oh, I agree completely. I'm wholeheartedly all for making a profitable business, but it can also be a company killer if you're not careful. Especially when you've got the heavy competition Markbass does these days.
But where are you going to find them as the company is DOA?
You'll find them at GC, CL, or Musicgoround in relative abundance.
The "underpowered" designs like the blues, studios, an original combos all seem to chug away. Worst thing is overheating them trying to pull max power, or breaking off pots.
Old SWR, Eden, GK, Ampeg, Peavy, etc gear is out there if you want it.
Does anyone here have anything, beyond his own dislike of the brand, that supports the assertion that Markbass sales are falling faster than sales of the musical instrument industry as a whole. Some actual evidence would be a refreshing change from TB's well earned reputation for loudly spouting nonsense.
Evidence, not anecdote, if you please.
Evidence, not anecdote, if you please.
Well until Markbass releases their financials, that's not going to happen. So you're stuck with anecdotal evidence, which may not indicate actual sales figures, but does give you a fairly reasonable idea of their popularity. 10 years ago, Markbass had the mass produced lightweight amp/cab field all to themselves. Genz Benz was about the only other company doing it back then (Ampeg did it before them, though their first stab at it came and went pretty quickly due to problems with execution), but they didn't get into stores like Markbass did. And now everyone makes micros, and that's bound to cut into Markbass sales. There's no way it couldn't. Markbass is still respected, still sells, but it's no longer the "it" micro amp like it was 10 years ago. How can that not affect sales?
Are you referring toe the amp behind me in this photo?
It sounded pretty nice (the Bass control was voiced way too high, however), and seemed to be very well made (beyond the nylon pot shafts, but that is a personal preference regarding build quality). But for something that was "Porta...", as in small and lightweight (?), it was really heavy, something like 14 lb. and, at 250 watts @ 4Ω, a far cry from the 7 lb. Walter Woods (600 watts @4Ω) I also had at the same time. The PB250 did have a nice, massive linear power supply, so that probably accounted for about 2/3 the weight, along with the steel chassis. These were among the last of the USA made amps, too, IIRC.
They also had a PB800 that weighed 20 lbs., which was pretty revolutionary for the time, considering their 450w SVT 3 Pro weighed 30 lbs. Maybe not as dramatic as the 2 lb amps we have now, but in its day...
If those amps weight half as much as they did they probably would have been much better received.
It's not like Markbass posted their earnings, the company has been discussed heavily in financial segments, and people are considering purging or buying positions in the company.
People post threads like this, and they generate interaction.
No brand is immune to decline in opinion.
In fact brands spend a lot of money to deviate from their core offerings in an effort to "keep in step" with consumers after market saturation has occurred. Saturation is not a hard %, it is a belief that your core user has has been served. Automotive, consumer electronics, apparel, etc tend to track the secondary market to mine a new tier of customers.
Music won't be an industry that can really take advantage of analysis. It's not ubiquitous enough. I won't be able to generate historical brand opinion like video gaming.
If anyone is interested in how analysis works:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
and
twitter-kinesis-lab/twitter-producer at master · owickstrom/twitter-kinesis-lab · GitHub
People post threads like this, and they generate interaction.
No brand is immune to decline in opinion.
In fact brands spend a lot of money to deviate from their core offerings in an effort to "keep in step" with consumers after market saturation has occurred. Saturation is not a hard %, it is a belief that your core user has has been served. Automotive, consumer electronics, apparel, etc tend to track the secondary market to mine a new tier of customers.
Music won't be an industry that can really take advantage of analysis. It's not ubiquitous enough. I won't be able to generate historical brand opinion like video gaming.
If anyone is interested in how analysis works:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
and
twitter-kinesis-lab/twitter-producer at master · owickstrom/twitter-kinesis-lab · GitHub
I bought a NOS PB800 a few years back in order to have a 2-channel head. That, and a stereo cable let me play with Ric-O-Sound from the 4001 I had at the time.
Actually- It was a very good amp. It had a true SLM-era Ampeg tone, it was very solidly built, and more than loud and toneful enough for live performance.
Today's standards pretty much outshine anything that was done even just a few years back. With "Elfs" and such on the shelves and the amazing (IMO) Quilter, there's really a lot to choose from.
The PortaBass series was an interesting development from SLM at the time. For the record, I've also had an SLM built SVT-3Pro and a B-15R (B-15N before that). All outstanding rigs that given a little more room in my studio, I would not mind at all having today. I understand that the PortaBass Speaker Cabs had some issues; did not deliver, etc. I couldn't say, never owned or used one.
The "Ric-O-Sound" from the PB800 actually was awesome. I think that maybe a lot of 4001 owners haven't had the pleasure of using that feature. While I didn't set-up with 2 separate amps like a rawk star, utilizing 2 channels gave new dimension and depth to the unique Ric sound.
As far as MarkBass, IMO suffice it to say they are still active, their website shows new products and goings-on, and remember that they have had a European market share before they were intro'd via GC here in the States. I imagine building offshore & such may reflect on their financial goals/ situation, but what do I care as long as I'm happy (and I am, very), with my LM-800T?
Well I believe that I'm highly qualified to answer this for a few reasons... First off, Markbass hit the market right when Ampeg whored itself out overseas and was having massive quality issues, so they were in the right place at the right time. Being pushed so hard by GC just fanned the flames, so that's how we all became acquainted with them.
As for heads, Markbass really pioneered the portable micro amp. They were the first widely available, arguably professional, tour quality portables that you could buy.
The same hold true for their cabinets, they were the first cabinet to popularize neo speakers, and they were using furniture grade Italian poplar with carpet, when everyone else was using particle board with vinyl.
They also had a ton of heads, cabs, and configurations available, and most other companies had slimmed down their lines at that point. Plus, they were Italian at a time when everything was either US or some 3rd world country, so people viewed it as a great alt to US stuff, and the price was on par with US.
I've owned and played everything and black and orange is my favorite color scheme... this is black and yellow and it's stupid ugly as hell. My Guitar player is a regional manager for GC and when they tried to sell me this stuff I said Hell no, based on color alone. Why MB has not abandoned it is so far beyond me. That being said... in 2010, I told GC to give me a Markbass head for a punk show gig, and if I liked it, I'd buy two rigs the next day. They did.
I played a Littletube 800 through a Trace Elliot 810 with Celestions and it was perfect. So the next day, I bought two New York 804 cabs, two sealed 410 cabs, a Littletube 800, and an SD1200 head. The heads sound completely different and so do the cabs. Since that day, I've never played a show with either where there hasn't been a line of gear heads, complimenting that my sound is the best that they've ever heard... and this is coming from arrogant guit players, so I took it quite seriously.
I put everything up for sale one time because I was a little bored with it and still hate the color... well even though it's all in mint condition (I have bad OCD), no one made any offers at all, even though I priced it below a third of what it was going for new. Well thank God for that.
The 8" New York cabs and SD1200 head have long since been discontinued and all my stuff is Italian, which is no longer the case. Well I went to buy a 15" a few years back, and when I did, I found it to be Indonesian. Of course everyone was complaining about the overseas thing here on talk bass, but no one ever hit the nail on the head.
Simply put, overseas manufacturing is perfectly fine, but the price should reflect it. Markbass didn't switch to overseas in order to give it's customers better pricing or an alternative line of economical gear, both of which would've worked. Instead they chose to be sneaky and simply pull the old switcheroo. They defended their decision to the death... but it was too little too late. Now they survive simply because of GC.
My Markbass rep tried to convince me otherwise a few years back when Orange started endorsing me, and I told them the same... I don't mind you making the stuff for a 3rd of the price, that's just business, but you're not passing the savings on to me, that's ********. Well, look what it got them.
By now, their micro innovations and lightweight neo cabs have been copied to death by everyone, and we can all get Indonesian micro's from anywhere.
Due to the fact that my stuff is light, strong, reliable, powerful, and transparent, I'll never give it up. Why would I when even the guitar players love it? But yellow, oversea's, AND most importantly over priced for overseas. They signed their own death warrant. Plus, now every kid on the block want's to be the next big viral hit with his boutique ********, which either sounds like crap or is just the same old sound in a new box.
Ampeg realized that they screwed up big time and so they scurried and brought out the heritage line, but it was also too little too late. They never reclaimed the market, and neither will Markbass, and neither will care. We're on our own my friends, so hold on to what you love! Its days are numbered.
As for heads, Markbass really pioneered the portable micro amp. They were the first widely available, arguably professional, tour quality portables that you could buy.
The same hold true for their cabinets, they were the first cabinet to popularize neo speakers, and they were using furniture grade Italian poplar with carpet, when everyone else was using particle board with vinyl.
They also had a ton of heads, cabs, and configurations available, and most other companies had slimmed down their lines at that point. Plus, they were Italian at a time when everything was either US or some 3rd world country, so people viewed it as a great alt to US stuff, and the price was on par with US.
I've owned and played everything and black and orange is my favorite color scheme... this is black and yellow and it's stupid ugly as hell. My Guitar player is a regional manager for GC and when they tried to sell me this stuff I said Hell no, based on color alone. Why MB has not abandoned it is so far beyond me. That being said... in 2010, I told GC to give me a Markbass head for a punk show gig, and if I liked it, I'd buy two rigs the next day. They did.
I played a Littletube 800 through a Trace Elliot 810 with Celestions and it was perfect. So the next day, I bought two New York 804 cabs, two sealed 410 cabs, a Littletube 800, and an SD1200 head. The heads sound completely different and so do the cabs. Since that day, I've never played a show with either where there hasn't been a line of gear heads, complimenting that my sound is the best that they've ever heard... and this is coming from arrogant guit players, so I took it quite seriously.
I put everything up for sale one time because I was a little bored with it and still hate the color... well even though it's all in mint condition (I have bad OCD), no one made any offers at all, even though I priced it below a third of what it was going for new. Well thank God for that.
The 8" New York cabs and SD1200 head have long since been discontinued and all my stuff is Italian, which is no longer the case. Well I went to buy a 15" a few years back, and when I did, I found it to be Indonesian. Of course everyone was complaining about the overseas thing here on talk bass, but no one ever hit the nail on the head.
Simply put, overseas manufacturing is perfectly fine, but the price should reflect it. Markbass didn't switch to overseas in order to give it's customers better pricing or an alternative line of economical gear, both of which would've worked. Instead they chose to be sneaky and simply pull the old switcheroo. They defended their decision to the death... but it was too little too late. Now they survive simply because of GC.
My Markbass rep tried to convince me otherwise a few years back when Orange started endorsing me, and I told them the same... I don't mind you making the stuff for a 3rd of the price, that's just business, but you're not passing the savings on to me, that's ********. Well, look what it got them.
By now, their micro innovations and lightweight neo cabs have been copied to death by everyone, and we can all get Indonesian micro's from anywhere.
Due to the fact that my stuff is light, strong, reliable, powerful, and transparent, I'll never give it up. Why would I when even the guitar players love it? But yellow, oversea's, AND most importantly over priced for overseas. They signed their own death warrant. Plus, now every kid on the block want's to be the next big viral hit with his boutique ********, which either sounds like crap or is just the same old sound in a new box.
Ampeg realized that they screwed up big time and so they scurried and brought out the heritage line, but it was also too little too late. They never reclaimed the market, and neither will Markbass, and neither will care. We're on our own my friends, so hold on to what you love! Its days are numbered.
Reminds me of what happened to Oldsmobile after they were recognized for a product, then saturation of market with "just likes", and eventual redundancy bc they couldn't lead out with segment defining products.
A better title for this thread might have been:
"Why isn't MarkBass as popular as it was when it was first made available here in the US?"
That's too easy- It now has 10X the competition, whereas then, it had none.
I still hook up my LM800T to my 410. It sill sounds- IMO YMMV -awesome. Its still built like a tank, it may be an Indonesian tank, but I'll bet those babies could knock a few things down over there in Jakarta!
And, as I feel without reservation, no difference in sound or quality between the "old" Italian-made models.
MarkBass' business plans don't concern me, nor do their profits- Only how their rigs sound with my instruments for my Projects. In that, they deliver.
If I felt the cost was too high, I would have looked elsewhere. I thought the price was very reasonable actually.
Last but not least- Mine is the Ltd Edition, Gold faceplate, so no yellow/black color scheme that seems to mess w/ peoples minds.
Its a keeper.
"Why isn't MarkBass as popular as it was when it was first made available here in the US?"
That's too easy- It now has 10X the competition, whereas then, it had none.
I still hook up my LM800T to my 410. It sill sounds- IMO YMMV -awesome. Its still built like a tank, it may be an Indonesian tank, but I'll bet those babies could knock a few things down over there in Jakarta!
And, as I feel without reservation, no difference in sound or quality between the "old" Italian-made models.
MarkBass' business plans don't concern me, nor do their profits- Only how their rigs sound with my instruments for my Projects. In that, they deliver.
If I felt the cost was too high, I would have looked elsewhere. I thought the price was very reasonable actually.
Last but not least- Mine is the Ltd Edition, Gold faceplate, so no yellow/black color scheme that seems to mess w/ peoples minds.
Its a keeper.
The colors that are off-putting.
Strong design statements produce reactions like the Thumb, Pontiac Aztek, and Cross Colors Jeans once the market has a chance to experience the product.
You need uniquely durable, output producing, prestige of ownership, etc to booster strong design cues or else it will flag the negatives on sight in the long term.
Strong design statements produce reactions like the Thumb, Pontiac Aztek, and Cross Colors Jeans once the market has a chance to experience the product.
You need uniquely durable, output producing, prestige of ownership, etc to booster strong design cues or else it will flag the negatives on sight in the long term.
You seem to be stating that MarkBass is done for, like the examples you listed above.
I don't really think that's the case.
I don't have sales figures or profit reports for MarkBass. Do you?
They seem to be going strong, they always have a presence at NAMM, they have a strong up-to-date website, and every sad time I enter a GC, I see a good selection of their gear in-store, as well as the products' presence in GC online and their "sister" operation, Musicians' Friend.
I would be inclined to say that Mr. Marco knows wassup. Maybe he likes yellow/black, maybe its an Italian thang!
Been there, LOVED the wine!
I'm not saying it's done as an enterprise.
I have been lightly checking out used Markbass gear for the past couple months.
The owners are nearly 100% on to something else that has the same general packaging.
They are buying into voicing that's brand identifiable like Mesa, GK, Genzler, Ampeg, etc.
They are not selling their gear bc the unique voice of their MB gear is so overwhelmingly servicing their needs.
You can however scrape used FS ads and stream them for analysis. My buddy built the system Audi uses to publish their offers.
We just don't work in industries that aren't impactful enough.
Levi's has this problem, so they have to run their applications in house bc no one really wants to spend the time to work on Jean brand identity.
The GAP has this issue as well, no one with a credible skillset cares enough when healthcare, tv/movies, or video gaming is just more interesting data to work on.
I have been lightly checking out used Markbass gear for the past couple months.
The owners are nearly 100% on to something else that has the same general packaging.
They are buying into voicing that's brand identifiable like Mesa, GK, Genzler, Ampeg, etc.
They are not selling their gear bc the unique voice of their MB gear is so overwhelmingly servicing their needs.
You can however scrape used FS ads and stream them for analysis. My buddy built the system Audi uses to publish their offers.
We just don't work in industries that aren't impactful enough.
Levi's has this problem, so they have to run their applications in house bc no one really wants to spend the time to work on Jean brand identity.
The GAP has this issue as well, no one with a credible skillset cares enough when healthcare, tv/movies, or video gaming is just more interesting data to work on.
