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What happened to Markbass popularity?

I'm not saying it's done as an enterprise.
I have been lightly checking out used Markbass gear for the past couple months.
The owners are nearly 100% on to something else that has the same general packaging.
They are buying into voicing that's brand identifiable like Mesa, GK, Genzler, Ampeg, etc.
They are not selling their gear bc the unique voice of their MB gear is so overwhelmingly servicing their needs.

You can however scrape used FS ads and stream them for analysis. My buddy built the system Audi uses to publish their offers.

We just don't work in industries that aren't impactful enough.
Levi's has this problem, so they have to run their applications in house bc no one really wants to spend the time to work on Jean brand identity.

The GAP has this issue as well, no one with a credible skillset cares enough when healthcare, tv/movies, or video gaming is just more interesting data to work on.

Well, I may think that you are over-thinking a bit on this, but that's totally cool, I'm not to judge!

My LM800T isn't for sale and will not likely be. I have some superlative options right at hand in my studio, inc. Tec-Amp,
Quilter, G-K, and that's just the micro-heads!

Every one of my heads, in conjunction w/ every one of my cabs, in conjunction with every one of my basses- has but (1) purpose- Which is to give me the flavor and output to sound like me, my attack, my groove, and my approach.

I wouldn't care to state why any other MarkBass owner put their unit on the block- Maybe the colors gave them a cataract; who knows!???:roflmao:

Lots of peeps here move on! As soon as the next product is available, they get GAS. I get that too. "The grass is always greener" feeling.
Mesa's working on some new stuff, so I hear- Wait until that is announced. Stampede! Check the classifieds for ...whatever!
 
I, for one, couldn't care less about the MB color scheme. Doesn't bother me a bit. It's only the sound that matters. And for me, I get the tone I want and like from my MB rig.

My equipment is from the Italian days and I cannot comment on the new Indonesian equipment, as I haven't tried it out. But I do have to agree with @armyadarkness that if you're going to cut costs by outsourcing to a perceived less quality controlled environment without offering some sort of savings back to the consumer, that's kind of a bad PR move. I suppose that MB can defend the move by noting that they have near-continuously changed the line up aside from some A&B products that they offer, so they may feel they are offering more now at a more reasonable price point, but I digress...

Again, agreeing with @armyadarkness, every time I play with my MB rig, I get nothing but compliments to the sound. People are still impressed with the volume and clarity from such a small, lightweight rig... I think many are still unaware that there are other manufacturers doing similar things these days.

I've thought about looking into some of what other companies are offering nowadays, but I keep just reminding myself that fixing what ain't broke ain't fixing anything at all.
 
Not that I'm dialed in to all the news all the time, but I have not heard of any great influx of MarkBass equipment failures since their mfg. move to Indonesia. Truth be told, after I got my 800T (Indonesian) I didn't even think of looking, and had not heard that it was mfd. elsewhere. This after using it extensively on-stage, and having owned the "Marco Signature" built in Italy LMII. Since I haven't done a walk-through of their Indonesian facility, of course I couldn't comment on their QC- but some would I guess.
I think most bass players, certainly here on TB know what else is out there, this place is the Hornet's nest for gearheads!
Other bassists who may not care to partake of TB- I know of many- They either research gear on their own, or not!
One of my buds is a very fine and busy working bassist. He's had a 3-PRO since 1932 (jk jk), I mean a looong time really, and has no interest whatsoever in buying anything else. In his words: "What for?" :roflmao:
 
Well like I said yesterday, some stuff is fact, and some stuff is opinion. To the average Joe, furniture grade Italian poplar is 100 times the product of MDF/ OSB/ particle board, but many would argue that MDF has the best tonal qualities available. Without data, who knows?

The fact is, Markbass did what business's have been doing since the dawn of time... They made the best stuff out there, affordable, unique, and innovative, they captured the market, and then they jumped ship.

Now do I think that their current stuff sucks? No... I think that it's competitive, which in itself is enough... If that's your goal in life to be good enough, then there they lay. When the Randy Jackson head was coming out I was the first guy in America to get it... which also made me the first guy in America to return it! P.U! I'm an old school punk, so my transparent, fast attacking, solid state Mark gear gives me the articulation and tone that I need to cut through... play with my fingers, sound like a pick... Most guys call that tone anemic. Well it's subjective. The Randy head was not for me, but I'm sure that it was for others.

So where does that leave us? Well if I made guitars, and you guys bought them from me, and you made me a success, and then I found a better deal on bridges and could save $20 each, I'd drop my prices by $20, you'd love me even more, my business would boom through the roof, and I'd set the new standard for business. That's the love that I'd feel for the customers that built my business.

If on the other hand, I could barely stay profitable, I'd ask my customers, would you rather that I reduce the cost of labor and materials, or that I raise my prices? Likely everyone would pay an extra $5 to keep stuff in America, cast vs stamped, and ply vs MDF. Again, I'd set the new standard.

For the record, I'm an economics freak and a manufacturer, and so you know, we really are only talking about a few bucks here. I have a very valuable email regarding guitar manufacturing that I should share if anyone has interest. The manufacturing cost difference between dressed stainless frets and undressed nickel frets on a Fender is about 28 cents! But to you, the cost is about $450!

So when Markbass went to Indonesia, they probably saved a lot less money than you think. But when you sell 20,000 amps a year, $5 each is massive! So Markbass should've raised the price $5 before they ever considered changing anything. That being said, yeah they aint going anywhere!

It's all marketing. Here in the US, status is everything. Heck GC has a neon green Dean Zone that is the best sounding bass that I've ever heard, it costs less than $200, and Dean customer service is the BOMB! If I could get my G&L's and Fenders to sound like it, I'd be king! But I'd die if I was playing a show with the same bass that my fans 8 year old nephew got in his Christmas stocking.

There's what is going on in the world, and what we're told is going on, and what we perceive is going on. We're getting screwed everywhere... Markbass just forgot to pull the curtain down first. If you love what you got than rock it out! Lord knows they aint screwing you any harder than anyone else. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that they did us a favor by so blatantly exposing what Fender, Ampeg, GK, and Peavey have been doing since the 80's.
 
One thing has not been mentioned re: MarkBass, one VERY important thing -VERY important.

The PENS they give out at NAMM. Big thick pens, not some little scrawny-arse "Bic", But brawny, Black & Orange husky pens, w/ the "MarkBass" logo. Beautiful! Magnificent!

I do not know if they are Italian-made (prolly Chinese) but they are awesome!
This MUST be taken into account!:roflmao:

OK seriously then: Armyadarkness;

I don't know Marco De Virgiliis. I'm not going to back-track his history; he may never be canonized "Saint Marco"
(unless a future Pope plays bass), but I do believe he's an innovator & mover/shaker insofar as what he's done with his Company.

So why suggest that he, along with Ampeg, Fender, GK and Peavey, have been "screwing" us? Because they want a profitable business? Shame on them, huh? To what extent can you know what their practices have been, and how different they may be than any other business, whether its General Motors, MicroSoft, or the Apple phones, made in China for about 45 cents each (jk, I think!), then sold for ridiculous amounts of money.

These amp building monoliths you mention all make products that are used and in many cases loved by musicians.
I really like my LM800T, I like my MB "Keeper" and the costly flight case that they used to make for the LMIII is awesome and has been of great use to me.

Please start your own manufacturing business, develop a Customer Base, get involved with every aspect of running and owning a business, then report back on COG, Profit Margins, where you'll build, Regulations you have to adhere to, and then finally, how much savings you can or are willing to kick back to your customers. Or we could ask the luthiers that post here what they would do if a $20 reduction in a bridge were offered...Would they lower the price of the finished product by same? Or would they be thankful that they get to earn a little bit more for the already low net profit from their build??To be honest..IDK. Do you?

Not trying to pick a bone w/you or anyone else. Not trying to call BS either. You have a viewpoint; you are entitled.
I just don't think that it is as Black-and-White as you portray it to be.
 
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This was posted on Facebook from Marco De Virgiliis to explain the move to Indonesia in 2014:
Hi Markbass fans, here Marco explains our way to work and our philosophy.

There are few things, which need to be discussed before we explain the reason why we decided to start manufacturing some of our Markbass products in Indonesia:

1. The economical crises, which Europe has been straggling with for the last five years, brought about a very different scenario for all small/medium size companies, especially in Italy, where manufacturing has become very expensive.

2. Many suppliers have closed down their businesses or they are no longer in the position to support their clients due to a lack of cash flow, putting monthly productions as well as delivery times at risk.

3. The supply time for all single components went from few weeks to several months, due the fact that the manufacturers (mainly of electronic components) have been focusing their attention primarily on Asian, American and European markets in general, leaving the Italian market at the very end.
Lots of suppliers dramatically reduced their presence inside the Italian market, forcing their clients to place orders sometimes 8 months ahead of time!!!

4. Raw materials like wood have become more and more expensive, and inside a niche market like the Musical Instruments Market, we couldn’t any longer compete with other manufacturers.

5. Almost entirely, manufacturers are now manufacturing in Asia.

6. Markbass never increased its price list since 2001. Offering the best products at fair prices is part of our core strategy.

7. Our product quality has been a stable datum and it hasn’t been compromised.

8. We didn’t want to lay off any of our workers.

Markbass brings INNOVATION to the Asian manufacturing system.

After taking under consideration all of the above, two years ago we started a cooperation with a well-known Indonesian company. We already had some sort of relationship with them because of our distribution in that part of the world, and we also knew them well because of their partnership with other companies very close to us.

At the beginning of these two years we started manufacturing only few components of our products. Once we were really sure of the product quality, we increased our production to all parts.
Our engineers and product specialists have been monitoring the manufacturing process since the very beginning, and they are always present during the assembling of all our products.

Our products are the same products as before: their quality hasn’t changed. We insisted that we kept using only components in line with our strategy and technical specifications.

We brought over our quality control/testing system, built a specialized unit and trained the workers one by one.
Our engineers have now daily exchanges of communication with the Indonesian technicians.

THE BIG NEWS: a cost for everyone else, an added value for Markbass.

Since the very beginning we decided to inspect all the products manufactured in Asia once they arrive in Italy. Despite the big cost of this operation, we felt it was a very important step to guarantee the quality of our products. No other companies do a secondary inspection of their products once in Italy!!!
Markbass not only opens and inspects every single product received from Indonesia. We also test every single one like it was manufactured in Italy. Our technicians do the testing, and we say with pride that they are the most reliable technicians in the world, with a knowledge that comes from passion and a lot of experience.

FINAL RESULT

Markbass has increased its quality. Not only did the Asian production evolve and become more and more specialized with the contribution of our technicians, we also noticed another significant increase in the overall quality of our products due to our “double testing system”. Each and every one of our products, which comes from Indonesia, is re-tested in Italy and labeled: Tested in Italy. Every product is tested 100% twice!

All the components stayed the same: from the speakers to the condensers, which we choose and test one by one; as well as from the transformers to all the other components.

When we started to manufacture in Asia we came to know that a lot of our competitors products were less expensive, not only because the labor was less expensive, the quality of their components were also cheaper and of a less quality.

With our Asian production, we were able to increase the quality of our products. We spent time and money explaining to our Indonesian partners that we didn’t want a cheaper product; we wanted to guarantee that our know-how and knowledge would stay the same and possibly become better.

Nobody at Markbass has been laid off. On the contrary: our staff has been increased with a couple of young engineers that now work with us full time!!! The human factor is very important to us and it will always come first!

CONCLUSIONS

It is no longer possible for us to label “made in Italy” on some of our products. But we guarantee you that our production system is UNIQUE and, statistics at hand, our quality is even better than before. I challenge anybody to find any difference between the two productions, starting from the felt we use… Our Indonesian partner told us that nobody uses that quality of felt!!!

Any difference that might exist between the two productions is due to internal decisions taken not because the products were going to be manufactured in Asia, but for technical reasons and for the improvement of the quality itself.

This needs to be stated one more time: no other company re-opens and re-checks their products manufactured in Asia!
At Markbass, every products delivered to the final customer, has been prior inspected by a specialized Markbass operator.

We continue to take responsibly in delivering to our customers only quality products, fully and utterly checked in Italy.
Thanks to our methods and our philosophy we are able to keep growing, keep sustaining our R&D in all the MarkWorld technology fields.
We have a state of the art laboratory able to keep the same price-quality standard we always had.

We say it loud: “re-tested in Italy”!!!
 
Well I appreciate everyone's input. I play Markbass exclusively, so I certainly am not bashing them. Not sure if or how anyone interpreted my words that way.

I'm an engineer, and I prototype and manufacture many things, own and run a business for more than 20 years, am a retired consumer affairs investigator for the government, and I'm paid by the government to teach civic responsibility and economics to labor unions, so that their members understand how shopping effects their family and community.

I posted here, on this topic, because I see far too many friends, family, and consumers, misunderstanding manufacturing, economics, and what "Made in America" really means. As the saying goes, knowing is half the battle. Heck if you really want the truth, every time a customer argues price with a merchant, they're contributing to things being made over seas. After all, if we just paid whatever it costs to make things, then everything would still be made here. Our quest for low prices has forced manufacturers to seek cheaper alternatives.

I'm not trying to sway anyone on anything. I'm trying to enlighten my brethren on topics for which I'm qualified to to discuss. If you go back to my opening line, there is fact and there is opinion. I never confused the two here. Until every amp manufacturer on Earth starts to put the same center frequencies on all of their amps, or God gives us all the the same ears, then... we'll disagree on opinions.

Although we can all agree that guitar players suck.

I believe in one single thing in life when it comes to government and manufacturing, and that's transparency. That is what my post is about. When the things that we believe in are changed without our knowledge, we feel deceived, and that's why people got upset with Markbass. I'm not one of them... because I knew better and I was informed.

People would flip if they found out that Burger King started making woppers out of ostrich. There'd be nothing illegal about it, many would actually prefer it, it's healthier... none the less it'd be construed as sneaky and they'd lose a ton of biz.

So in closing, after 20 years of wanting an Ampeg stack, I saved my money and could finally afford one. A month prior to buying one, Ampeg switched to overseas manufacturing and their quality suffered terribly. TB and the web exploded with angry customers who were stuck with $3000 boat anchors, and even if Ampeg fixed their stuff, they all lost time, money, gigs... I was so upset. All of my idols played Ampeg, and now what to do?

Money doesn't come easy to me, and that was too much of a risk. Why did this happen? You tell me. I wasn't there and I don't work for Ampeg, nor did I get screwed. They only facts that I have are; that the toughest most famous amps in the history of bass, moved overseas and then started blowing up, according to their customers.

Now if you ask my opinion, Ampeg amps suck butt's!! But, I also hate crab meat, so let's hear all of your arguments about that now too! Lol... thank you all for the respect and contributions. I appreciate the fact that you all saw me as trying to help. I've sacrificed the better part of my life trying to make the world a better place. Where better to do that than here?

When I need advice on playing... Jimmy M and B-line will be the first to pop into my heads... and when you want to know how an American made car is made in Mexico, you can count on me!
 
By the Jimmy M, yes, I do set an example and I do light the world on fire with my business and ethics. I believe that one person can make a difference in society, and government. I turn away more customers than I take on because they want what can't be done right. I pay more for things so that I can support my community. And when I worked for the government, I was the only one who wouldn't get raises, because I refused to falsify reports like my co-workers did. I have no problem coming in last if it means that I helped my friends and played by the rules.
 
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Well I appreciate everyone's input. I play Markbass exclusively, so I certainly am not bashing them. Not sure if or how anyone interpreted my words that way.

I'm an engineer, and I prototype and manufacture many things, own and run a business for more than 20 years, am a retired consumer affairs investigator for the government, and I'm paid by the government to teach civic responsibility and economics to labor unions, so that their members understand how shopping effects their family and community.

I posted here, on this topic, because I see far too many friends, family, and consumers, misunderstanding manufacturing, economics, and what "Made in America" really means. As the saying goes, knowing is half the battle. Heck if you really want the truth, every time a customer argues price with a merchant, they're contributing to things being made over seas. After all, if we just paid whatever it costs to make things, then everything would still be made here. Our quest for low prices has forced manufacturers to seek cheaper alternatives.

I'm not trying to sway anyone on anything. I'm trying to enlighten my brethren on topics for which I'm qualified to to discuss. If you go back to my opening line, there is fact and there is opinion. I never confused the two here. Until every amp manufacturer on Earth starts to put the same center frequencies on all of their amps, or God gives us all the the same ears, then... we'll disagree on opinions.

Although we can all agree that guitar players suck.

I believe in one single thing in life when it comes to government and manufacturing, and that's transparency. That is what my post is about. When the things that we believe in are changed without our knowledge, we feel deceived, and that's why people got upset with Markbass. I'm not one of them... because I knew better and I was informed.

People would flip if they found out that Burger King started making woppers out of ostrich. There'd be nothing illegal about it, many would actually prefer it, it's healthier... none the less it'd be construed as sneaky and they'd lose a ton of biz.

So in closing, after 20 years of wanting an Ampeg stack, I saved my money and could finally afford one. A month prior to buying one, Ampeg switched to overseas manufacturing and their quality suffered terribly. TB and the web exploded with angry customers who were stuck with $3000 boat anchors, and even if Ampeg fixed their stuff, they all lost time, money, gigs... I was so upset. All of my idols played Ampeg, and now what to do?

Money doesn't come easy to me, and that was too much of a risk. Why did this happen? You tell me. I wasn't there and I don't work for Ampeg, nor did I get screwed. They only facts that I have are; that the toughest most famous amps in the history of bass, moved overseas and then started blowing up, according to their customers.

Now if you ask my opinion, Ampeg amps suck butt's!! But, I also hate crab meat, so let's hear all of your arguments about that now too! Lol... thank you all for the respect and contributions. I appreciate the fact that you all saw me as trying to help. I've sacrificed the better part of my life trying to make the world a better place. Where better to do that than here?

When I need advice on playing... Jimmy M and B-line will be the first to pop into my heads... and when you want to know how an American made car is made in Mexico, you can count on me!


Well, now we have been informed!:roflmao:

I can't add much, except:

1) Ampeg made a move Overseas initially because SLM sold them to someone else, the rest is History!

2) I like Crabmeat

3) I'm not sure if I could provide any advice on playing; but feel free to ask, other than that.

Good Post!:thumbsup:
 
So in closing, after 20 years of wanting an Ampeg stack, I saved my money and could finally afford one. A month prior to buying one, Ampeg switched to overseas manufacturing and their quality suffered terribly. TB and the web exploded with angry customers who were stuck with $3000 boat anchors, and even if Ampeg fixed their stuff, they all lost time, money, gigs... I was so upset. All of my idols played Ampeg, and now what to do?

Money doesn't come easy to me, and that was too much of a risk. Why did this happen? You tell me. I wasn't there and I don't work for Ampeg, nor did I get screwed. They only facts that I have are; that the toughest most famous amps in the history of bass, moved overseas and then started blowing up, according to their customers.
Yeah, that went on for 2 years, then they shut down production at the problematic factory, asked the former head idiot of LOUD to resign at the end of 2008, and it got noticeably better almost overnight.
 
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Some of us don't want transparency from our gear. :) (Okay some do :))


HERE'S a piece of transparent gear:

download.jpg
 
...In the meantime...

I offered up my rig to a 'friend band' that was playing a festival with us over the weekend, and the bass player (who's previous rig was terrible) was psyched by his new Markbass 4x10 and 800w head that he was bringing. Another Fest we did over the weekend had at least one other bass player who had a Markbass head on his cab.

Seems like they're holding in there just fine.