What happened to Markbass popularity?

[Double E]

not sure what leads to that statement but i would guess Fender, Ampeg and GK?
since most of them had amps sitting on stages since woodstock or earlier

I don't think Markbass ever had ever become more popular than those three in order for them to have to surpass Markbass, so they are not valid answers.

What brands have surpassed Markbass since they became known for what they do and took there share of the market? Who is now more popular and has supplanted Markbass' position that has caused all of the discussion in this thread?

Maybe Aguilar...maybe. TC Electronics, no...I don't think so. I can't even name one for sure.

 

[Pbassmanca]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I think Mark Bass is still very popular in Europe being more readily available.

 

[armyadarkness]

Thanks for the support guys. I guess that I went about it the wrong way... My post wasn't about brand loyalty, it was about economics, the term "Made in America", and how it all applies to us as bass players. The reason that I posted here, was because this forum happened to cover both economics and Markbass, and so I had first hand knowledge.

I'm really happy to hear everyone carefully dropping the word "perception/ perceived". B-line was getting what I was putting down long before I ever explained it... That is that we "perceive" over sea's stuff to be inferior. That doesn't mean it is. None the less... the following two examples will demystify it a bit more.

I own a 1982 Fender Jazz Bass Deluxe (the original Duff McKagen bass) with all of the rare options. In 1982, clean through the 90's, and up through 2010, that bass was considered a cheap piece of junk import. Well although I own some of the most expensive American basses out there, that Duff bass is the bomb. No other bass gets the compliments that it does when it comes to sound. It's my closet queen... and the same goes for my Chinese Yamaha PA.

So when were talking about Markbass's Indonesia stuff... Quality is not my beef. My concern is, if it in fact was cheaper to manufacture there... then the products themselves should've been cheaper to buy... Yes that's only my opinion, but let me explain why I feel that way.

If the Italian model cost them $500 to make and they sold it for $1000, then you got the top of the line stuff and they made $500. If the Indonesian unit cost $300 to make and you pay $1000, then you just paid more for something that you got cheaper yesterday. Plus one could argue that its value is far less, because it went from being uniquely Italian to being one of many Indonesian pieces.

But how would you feel if you walked into a Chevy dealership with $45k to buy Super Sport Camaro, and the salesman said, they're too hard to get but I can sell you a V6 model for the same price? Shouldn't what's cheaper to make cost less to buy?

Heck, then there's supply and demand... Cancer medication costs $20,000 for a one month supply! So yeah I'd be pissed if they reduced the cost of making it but not what I was paying for it.

All this being said, whether it was Carvin, Peavey, Ampeg... or Mark, my money will go to whoever has what I like. I've always been hard core loyal to the company's that I use... rarely has it paid off, So now in my 40's, I just buy what I want.

I was a loyal Trace Elliot guy... now look at them. It's cool stuff, but it's just green Peavey stuff. Yeah maybe I'll buy an Elf, and yeah everyone will think it's cool... but then again, everyone thought that my Peavey VB3 was the coolest thing that they ever saw... I use it as a $2300 wheel chock so that my trailer doesn't roll down the driveway.

 

[B-line]

There MAY be other considerations we're not privy too, I'm thinking specifically Import/Export issues. I have no idea how, if at all, they affect MB having product made offshore, then brought back to Italy as stock, or shipped direct to their Distributors, which in the case of the USA would be GC.
No data at all, just a thought.

I honestly feel that IF they could have cost-effectively kept mfg. at home, they would have, and that their move was dictated probably by the fact that they had to do something to keep in the black.
As has been stated, and is obvious, they are no longer the sole lightweight, well-priced, great-sounding amps, not by a looooong shot!
In fact, there is SO much out there, its really a buyers' market, which is a good thang.

Lemme think, what's USA-made today, amongst the small amps?? Quilter is, G-K now is, Aguilar is, what have I forgotten?

 

[40Hz]

So when were talking about Markbass's Indonesia stuff... Quality is not my beef. My concern is, if it in fact was cheaper to manufacture there... then the products themselves should've been cheaper to buy... Yes that's only my opinion, but let me explain why I feel that way.

It's fine to feel that way. But that's not the way economics or business pricing works.

Long-term success depends on maximizing revenues and profits whenever appropriate in order to tide you over during the inevitable slow sales cycles and leaner times. Your customers aren't interested in going into business with you. They have no intention of sharing a business's risks. They just want the product. If the price being charged is acceptable enough to the customer base that a company can continue operating at a profit, than there's no business reason to share manufacturing cost savings beyond what's needed to remain competitive.

Immediately and unthinkingly passing on your manufacturing cost savings is potentially suicidal in the larger scheme of things - unless you foolishly decide you want to compete purely on lower prices - which no sane business ever willingly does. Because it's not a sustainable business model unless you're a huge retail operation like Walmart. And Walmart's low price guarantee has been disastrous for many of Walmart's suppliers and driven out all competition in many areas. Great for Walmart perhaps. But bad for its suppliers. And ultimately bad for the larger economy as well as its customers in the long run.

 

[Scoops]

I have a LM800T driving a pair 102P's, but I usually just run a single cab. I play fretless exclusively.
Not once has someone approached me and said "You don't have that vintagey, warm tone I hear from other players".
I have heard at least once a gig "Man that bass sounds great"!
This rig works for me. That's what I care about. No gassing here either!
I did ditch the tacky Markbass plaques on the front of the speakers though.

 

[Stevorebob]

Thanks for the support guys. I guess that I went about it the wrong way... My post wasn't about brand loyalty, it was about economics, the term "Made in America", and how it all applies to us as bass players. The reason that I posted here, was because this forum happened to cover both economics and Markbass, and so I had first hand knowledge.

I'm really happy to hear everyone carefully dropping the word "perception/ perceived". B-line was getting what I was putting down long before I ever explained it... That is that we "perceive" over sea's stuff to be inferior. That doesn't mean it is. None the less... the following two examples will demystify it a bit more.

I own a 1982 Fender Jazz Bass Deluxe (the original Duff McKagen bass) with all of the rare options. In 1982, clean through the 90's, and up through 2010, that bass was considered a cheap piece of junk import. Well although I own some of the most expensive American basses out there, that Duff bass is the bomb. No other bass gets the compliments that it does when it comes to sound. It's my closet queen... and the same goes for my Chinese Yamaha PA.

So when were talking about Markbass's Indonesia stuff... Quality is not my beef. My concern is, if it in fact was cheaper to manufacture there... then the products themselves should've been cheaper to buy... Yes that's only my opinion, but let me explain why I feel that way.

If the Italian model cost them $500 to make and they sold it for $1000, then you got the top of the line stuff and they made $500. If the Indonesian unit cost $300 to make and you pay $1000, then you just paid more for something that you got cheaper yesterday. Plus one could argue that its value is far less, because it went from being uniquely Italian to being one of many Indonesian pieces.

But how would you feel if you walked into a Chevy dealership with $45k to buy Super Sport Camaro, and the salesman said, they're too hard to get but I can sell you a V6 model for the same price? Shouldn't what's cheaper to make cost less to buy?

Heck, then there's supply and demand... Cancer medication costs $20,000 for a one month supply! So yeah I'd be pissed if they reduced the cost of making it but not what I was paying for it.

All this being said, whether it was Carvin, Peavey, Ampeg... or Mark, my money will go to whoever has what I like. I've always been hard core loyal to the company's that I use... rarely has it paid off, So now in my 40's, I just buy what I want.

I was a loyal Trace Elliot guy... now look at them. It's cool stuff, but it's just green Peavey stuff. Yeah maybe I'll buy an Elf, and yeah everyone will think it's cool... but then again, everyone thought that my Peavey VB3 was the coolest thing that they ever saw... I use it as a $2300 wheel chock so that my trailer doesn't roll down the driveway.

No argument here. However in a free market, pricing for all products is/should be based on what the market will bear, and not on the cost of production. This may not be pleasant to the consumer, and it may not be nice, but it is the way it is.

 

[StatesideRambler]

If the Italian model cost them $500 to make and they sold it for $1000, then you got the top of the line stuff and they made $500. If the Indonesian unit cost $300 to make and you pay $1000, then you just paid more for something that you got cheaper yesterday. Plus one could argue that its value is far less, because it went from being uniquely Italian to being one of many Indonesian pieces.

But how would you feel if you walked into a Chevy dealership with $45k to buy Super Sport Camaro, and the salesman said, they're too hard to get but I can sell you a V6 model for the same price? Shouldn't what's cheaper to make cost less to buy?

WRT Markbass you're talking the same product from different factories (another topic which, itself, has been flogged mercilessly on TB). WRT the Camaro you're talking two different models. Had your car salesman offered you a Super Sport Camaro made in one of GM's overseas plants you'd have been closer to analogous but no more likely than with MB to see any price reduction.

Still, I'm puzzled that you said, "it went from being uniquely Italian to being one of many Indonesian pieces." Looking at the product alone, excluding economic and socio-political elements, it's the same product with only the chassis text "Made in I..." changing. It's not an Indonesian Valco with a Markbass badge. [OK, there a little guitar amp history knowledge is called for.] I agree with your contention that the price should have been reduced but that's the seller's prerogative. Our purchasing dollars are our votes for/against the seller.

 

[StatesideRambler]

No argument here. However in a free market, pricing for all products is/should be based on what the market will bear, and not on the cost of production. This may not be pleasant to the consumer, and it may not be nice, but it is the way it is.

"What the market will bear" rarely gets applied. It puts you in the situation of Caterpillar Tractor decades ago where their high prices for repair parts were just the incentive bootleggers needed to get started in that business. Today Cat has competitors who wouldn't have gotten a foothold but for Cat's premium pricing policy and sluggish response to competition. At least Cat survived and still thrived. Many don't.

The common business school model is:
Selling price minus cost of manufacture equals profit or loss.
The model used by a successful business is:
What is it and how much will it sell for? How much do I want to earn on a sale? Can it be made and sold for the difference? If yes, do so; if no, do something else.

 

[B-line]

....Aaaaand might I add:

Economic and Socio-Political considerations, while certainly of import to an individuals philosophy, code-of-ethics, and such...
Have no place in the stage or studio!

I know they could have a place with some who can't separate their credo from their purchases (understood).

But to me, the amp, be it MB, GK, or Jules Monique is a tool to give me what I want in performance.

My only consideration re: gear is that

it's KOSHER!
(jk jk)

 

[somebrains]

"What the market will bear" rarely gets applied. It puts you in the situation of Caterpillar Tractor decades ago where their high prices for repair parts were just the incentive bootleggers needed to get started in that business. Today Cat has competitors who wouldn't have gotten a foothold but for Cat's premium pricing policy and sluggish response to competition. At least Cat survived and still thrived. Many don't.

The common business school model is:
Selling price minus cost of manufacture equals profit or loss.
The model used by a successful business is:
What is it and how much will it sell for? How much do I want to earn on a sale? Can it be made and sold for the difference? If yes, do so; if no, do something else.

I got a message last night asking me why data warehousing and analytics was costing the client $140 this month.

If I was doing this 10 years ago my ask for equipment would be $1.5mil and 180days before I could start working.

There's usually more internal friction to business evolution than just flip on new process.

 

[B-line]

I got a message last night asking me why data warehousing and analytics was costing the client $140 this month.

If I was doing this 10 years ago my ask for equipment would be $1.5mil and 180days before I could start working.

There's usually more internal friction to business evolution than just flip on new process.

Well, what I would say is...

Hold on, I gotta take this call.....

 

[somebrains]

Well, what I would say is...

Hold on, I gotta take this call.....

View attachment 1198411

Lolz.
System is to propagate the knowledge and customer care practices of one burned out guy that handles almost all the CS tickets.

No one else bothers to reply in this company.

Managers can't get data on even what customers will download from their support page to gauge interest.

I'm hoping the guy I'm working with doesn't freak out and quit before I download his brain and build out a bunch of bots to load balance him.

 

[armyadarkness]

WRT Markbass you're talking the same product from different factories (another topic which, itself, has been flogged mercilessly on TB). WRT the Camaro you're talking two different models. Had your car salesman offered you a Super Sport Camaro made in one of GM's overseas plants you'd have been closer to analogous but no more likely than with MB to see any price reduction.

Still, I'm puzzled that you said, "it went from being uniquely Italian to being one of many Indonesian pieces." Looking at the product alone, excluding economic and socio-political elements, it's the same product with only the chassis text "Made in I..." changing. It's not an Indonesian Valco with a Markbass badge. [OK, there a little guitar amp history knowledge is called for.] I agree with your contention that the price should have been reduced but that's the seller's prerogative. Our purchasing dollars are our votes for/against the seller.

Well as we all already have stated... too many variables. I agree about the Camaro, and we're making the same point from different perspectives... that point being, "something that costs more money to make should cost more money to buy". Correct? Then, isn't the opposite of that "something cheaper to make should cost less to buy".?

Who the Hell knows! As B-line said, we're not there making them... and without getting way off topic, again, I was merely trying to enlighten my brethren on some consumer affairs information that's generally not understood by the public, and help them to understand what's really going on. It's all what we perceive.

A Toyota is manufactured in japan and assembled in the USA, and it's a foreign car. A Chevy is manufactured in Mexico and assembled in the USA, and it's an American car. I'm not trying to make any point, I'm just pointing out the deceptive nature in manufacturing.

I once bought stereo that had the American flag on the back and said Madina USA on it. I thought, wow! This thing was made in America and it was super cheap! But alas... Madena USA just looks like Made in the USA when you're sitting on the toilet. Upon closer inspection... Madena USA was a Mexican company, and they just happen to use the American Flag as their logo. Sounded awesome... but really?

 

[armyadarkness]

I made this several years ago and have since had it made into decals for my cabs. Thought you guys might get a kick out of it.

 

[Stevorebob]

"What the market will bear" rarely gets applied. It puts you in the situation of Caterpillar Tractor decades ago where their high prices for repair parts were just the incentive bootleggers needed to get started in that business. Today Cat has competitors who wouldn't have gotten a foothold but for Cat's premium pricing policy and sluggish response to competition. At least Cat survived and still thrived. Many don't.

The common business school model is:
Selling price minus cost of manufacture equals profit or loss.
The model used by a successful business is:
What is it and how much will it sell for? How much do I want to earn on a sale? Can it be made and sold for the difference? If yes, do so; if no, do something else.

Well, in your Cat example, the company exceeded what the market would bear. Cost-based pricing may produce a bottom-line price, but a seller leaves something on the table if they don't charge what the market is willing to pay.

 

[armyadarkness]

Sweet Jesus. If you guys ever move to Jersey I can give you all jobs. I usually go to Wall Street for my financial advice, but from now on, I'll check here first! I only make aluminum pedal boards, drum risers, pickguards, and custom rig gear. So I never have to worry about prices. Other than the pick guards, you can't get what I make anywhere else.

 

[B-line]

Sweet Jesus. If you guys ever move to Jersey I can give you all jobs. I usually go to Wall Street for my financial advice, but from now on, I'll check here first! I only make aluminum pedal boards, drum risers, pickguards, and custom rig gear. So I never have to worry about prices. Other than the pick guards, you can't get what I make anywhere else.

What time is lunch break? Plus...I'll need next Friday off!

 

[armyadarkness]

Sorry we don't break for lunch and we work all of the time, however we do drink on the job and the fabrication shop is inside of a recording studio

 

[Russell L]

Still popular here in the States, too, as far as I can tell.

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I think Mark Bass is still very popular in Europe being more readily available.