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Double Bass What is it about Bach Cello Suites?

#41
neilG said:
Yes, and then I took up the viola da gamba and would never play this on the bass again. One of the issues with playing accompanied Baroque music down an octave is that the voice relationships are no longer what they are intended to be. Good for study, but not for performance, IMO.
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As I've just begun studying them I haven't had the opportunity to play with accompaniment. I'm amazed that it stays the same!
Also: Mr Fitzgerald you sound like my teacher with regards to the cello suites: "... [some] just sound right on the bass." (with regards to transpositions)
 
#43
Chris Fitzgerald said:
I can't understand for the life of me why most bassists want to play the cello suites at pitch. As an exercise, it makes perfect sense, but in general for solo melodic material where there can be no harmonic inversion issues why not just play it in the lower register of the instrument where it will resonate most? I've heard a few versions of bassists at cello pitch that are good - and damned impressive from a technical standpoint - but in that range I'd rather hear a good cellist play them.
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Good points Chris. Yes, play it in the register that suits the instrument the best. I think the G major Prelude from the 1st suite is of equal difficulty then the cello version when played in C major. It sounds good to my ears in C. Playing it in G makes it much harder then it is on cello. I like to also play it in G though because of the technical challenge.
But with one octave lower transcriptions of cello pieces lots of times it will sound too muddy on bass.
 
#44
Chris Fitzgerald said:
I've always found transcriptions or arrangements in which the melodic voice is taken down an octave but the accompaniment stays put to be extremely unsettling, and like you, I would be fine with studying them but loath to perform them. But by the same token, I can't understand for the life of me why most bassists want to play the cello suites at pitch. As an exercise, it makes perfect sense, but in general for solo melodic material where there can be no harmonic inversion issues why not just play it in the lower register of the instrument where it will resonate most? I've heard a few versions of bassists at cello pitch that are good - and damned impressive from a technical standpoint - but in that range I'd rather hear a good cellist play them.
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It's only common to play a few of the suites at pitch. I can speak from experience that the first suite at pitch lies really wonderfully on the fingerboard, and I think putting it in a new key would only make it more difficult.
 
#46
JoeyNaeger said:
It's only common to play a few of the suites at pitch. I can speak from experience that the first suite at pitch lies really wonderfully on the fingerboard, and I think putting it in a new key would only make it more difficult.
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I didn't mean changing keys, rather just reading the cello score as if it were written for bass and letting the bass sound an octave lower than the cello.
 
#47
Sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I still maintain that playing in a lower range would not make it easier to play however. The proximity of notes and the greater range of the hand in thumb position allows for more flexible fingering solutions. I'm imagining bowing the the beginning of the prelude in my head, and I think the inevitable string skip that would have to occur would be a serious musical problem to overcome. Nothing impossible to deal with, but I think the suites that are commonly performed at pitch are done so for good reasons.
 
#50
JoeyNaeger said:
I'm imagining bowing the the beginning of the prelude in my head, and I think the inevitable string skip that would have to occur would be a serious musical problem to overcome. Nothing impossible to deal with, but I think the suites that are commonly performed at pitch are done so for good reasons.
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You are right. The Prelude from the 1st suite transposed to the key C has a lot of three and four string skips in the lower and middle register. So the bowing is more difficult. Whereas the one at pitch is more difficult for your TP intonation and spreads. Also the ending part starting from measure 31 is more difficult at pitch. That is why I like to play both versions.
 
#51
I've played Kreutzer's violin concerto in D, Bartok's violin duets, trumpet airs, Flute concerto's. Music is music, bass is just the way I express it best. For me the Cello suites are great technical and expressive pieces. One challenge is that the bass is tuned in Fourths and written for a smaller instrument with thinner and easier to play strings. I think a lot of people like to perform these pieces because it proves that the bass can be nimble and lyrical, and we aren't just Quarter note Donkey's. but that is just my thought on the subject :)
 
#53
Jluvial said:
Then of course you'd need to be tuned in 5ths to get the full effect of this. Are there any recordings of them played like this, with 5ths tuning?
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unfortunately, playing them down the octave ends up being problematic in terms of harmonies. because the frequencies get closer and closer together it is harder for the ear to distinguish thirds and other intervals in tune and not as dissonance. you also have fewer ear hairs to distinguish pitches down there (from my rudimentary knowledge of anatomy).

playing them down the octave in fifths makes for a very good technical exercise to learn how to play in the lower positions, but it seems like the fifths guys around here mostly play the suites in the dominant key. It resonates really nicely, and sounds like a piece written for the bass in a strange way.

eerbrev
 
#54
I say let anyone play whatever they want in whatever key or octave they think they can creat the most musical sound? If you play suite 1 in G, C, D, A... whatever. Practically I don't see the point in some keys for some tunings.... but if you are convincing then hey, go nuts.
 
#60
sanray said:
..I think a lot of people like to perform these pieces because it proves that the bass can be nimble and lyrical, and we aren't just Quarter note Donkey's
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Quarter Note Donkey!

I want that T-Shirt.

I've played the prelude to the 2nd suite at cello pitch fort my MA recital, and absolutely loved the experience. The genius of Bach's music is staggering! It opens up so many doors musically, and technically all the challenges I found to be of nearly equal difficulty - the cello suites need to be SO controlled, and SO clean, with SUCH clear intent, that I found if I was really in the zone, each bar was as easy/difficult as the next. It forces you to think in musical lines that we bass players are rarely forced to. It's exhilarating.
 
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