Double Bass What is it about Bach Cello Suites?

[David Potts]

I am going to be devil's advocate to see where this thread takes us!

Why are the Cello Suites held in such high esteem and put on such a pedestal by bassists?They are often difficult (both for technique and expression), the movements of some of them are well known "party pieces" and some are even used as test pieces in auditions. But they weren't written for us!!

Perhaps one answer is that they are "solitary" in that you can sit playing alone in your garret, thinking how good (or bad) you are and stroking your ego as you swoop and soar through the phrases.

Perhaps, because there is so much slurring involved, you end up developing a high level of legato playing. This is entirely valid but is it a be-all and end-all?

There are so many other skills to develop with both hands that, for me, being able to play Bach "nicely" has only a small part in developing and maintaining technique and musicianship. In short, there is so much more music to play and enjoy out there!

Cheers,

DP

 

[Epitaph04]

They sound nice.

 

[MartinBorgen]

Ever wondered why the bass-section's scores are combined in on the cello scores? They both fill a very similar function. Kind of asking why people play stuff written for Eb tuba on a Bb tuba.

 

[GoesThump]

But they weren't written for us!!

There's some evidence they weren't written for cello either, at least not the one we're all familiar with.

I think that's part of it though - there's very little early repertoire for the db - so a lot of transcriptions of baroque stuff exist. (Think of all those baroque sonatas zimmerman transcribed.)

GT

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

My opinion, which is that and nothing more, and which intends to offend no one:

1) Bach is one of the greatest composers who every lived.

2) There aren't any other solo bass pieces that I know of that were written by one of the greatest composers who ever lived.*

3) The musical ideas they contain are simple, clear cut, and seemingly universal; everyone seems to understand and enjoy a good performance of these pieces, perhaps because they are so straightforward. There is little or no flab or virtuosic wankery involved. For this reason, they can be interpreted in a variety of performance styles and still work.

4) Learning to play the suites offers any musician a multitude of learning opportunities, from technical to expressive. When played well, they are some of the most gorgeous music on earth; knowing what they can be when played well, it feels like an abomination to play them poorly. Perhaps because of this, they tend to make the person attempting them strive to focus and play to the best of his/her ability.


* are there any pieces at all for the bass written by true first-tier composers?

 

[Andrew McGregor]

+1 to what Chris said.

True, they're not originally bass works... but then, Bach himself transcribed his own works many times, so it seems he was not averse to his music being played on other instruments than the original.

First tier composers writing bass works... the Hindemith sonata is pretty much it.

We can pretty much lay claim to the bass viol literature, which gets us some Vivaldi.

But when it comes down to it, the bass repertoire is pretty lightweight, which is why the 'cello suites should be part of it; they're possible (ok, the sixth suite only marginally so) and at least the first and third suites actually work really well on the bass.

 

[notabene]

Very well put Chris.

In addition, as etudes, not performance pieces, the intonation of every note is easy to hear, if not necessarily easy to play. This means that practicing them lets you get feedback on your intonation, in a sense, just as playing scales with a drone does. And they are so well written that you needn't get bored with repeated playing of them.

 

[Papa Dangerous]

Many times you find sheet music with cello and bass parts combined. They can hit many (I do not know the range of cello vs bass - but I assume they are very close [Bass a little lower, cello a little higher IF any difference]) of the same notes in the register so they can be interchangeable.

Cello is like the younger sibling to the bass, but by no means lesser in anyway.

Its Bach, I try to play his Bouree in E minor on bass. He is just a great composer, so why not learn it?

As long as you are not trying to play Pacabel's Canon in D's cello part on bass, you are fine.

Side note: I really dig a bunch of Bach's organ pieces. Durch Adam Fall, the infamous Tocatta and Fugue in D minor, and Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor - to name a few.

 

[Eric Swanson]

+1 to Chris' post.

When I was first introduced to the Suites, my teacher, who was/is a composer as well as a bassist, suggested them because, as he put it, "If you are going to spend time working on something hard, it might as well feed you musically, as well. Most solo bass music is weak. These are some of the most well-made solo compositions, for string instruments, in the world." I don't have much to add to that, really.

The Bach Suites, are richly dense and, for me, remain endlessly rewarding and challenging. My former teacher told me that the Suites would also help my Bop soloing; they continue to do so, but continue to do much more. I try to play a movement or two, daily, as part of my routine. It always helps, whatever is going on...

There is a great book called "Goedel, Escher, Bach; the Eternal Golden Braid" by David Hofstadter. He expresses it well, I think, when he alludes to the ability of each of these creators to use their media to illustrate the concept of infinity; recursion upon recursion.

Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel,_Escher,_Bach

Bach's music does just that for me; it describes the vast and incomprehensible magic of life, with its' intricacies upon intricacies, its' patterns upon patterns, its' simplicity, wrought into complexity, yielding simplicity...

I really like the music...I just wish I could play those pesky Suites better, though...

 

[svenbass]

+1 Chris.

Practicing excellent music is the path to mastering your art, and Bach's music is truly excellent.

If one honestly gives what that music demands, the benefits are endless. I'm not a classical player in the least, but I practice Bach every day, and it is certainly 'desert island' material for me.

 

[damonsmith]

Bert Turetzky says a first class instrument doesn't play transcriptions in public. I agree with Chris in that there are less compositons by A-list composers for the double bass.
In modern and contemporary repertoire that is less true, Berio, Scelsi, Xenakis, Cage, Pauline Oliveros, etc. are all first rate. Futher back Mozart is about it for top tier.

I really just use compostions for preparations to improvise. Playing works by great composers is a simple way to make sure you can play great music on the bass, and if you happen to end up on stage with another musician who is playing great music, you'll have a better chance at participating. I play some Bach nearly every day.

While there are some nice enough recorded versions out there, I really only Meyer's #2 has merit next all the best 'cello versions.
For the most part, I think they need to be treated like a classical version of Charlie Parker's Omni book.

 

[neilG]

are there any pieces at all for the bass written by true first-tier composers?

Depends on what you mean by first-tier. I have a growing list of about 425 pieces for unaccompanied bass. Some of the composers you might recognize. Some quite well known and respected. None of them from the Baroque era.

 

[Raka]

What about the violin sonatas and partitas for violin? Any attempt on bass? I don't see any reason for not using those that don't use quadruple stopping.

 

[eerbrev]

there are two kinds of musicians in this world: those who are obsesses with Bach, and those who don't know they're obsessed with Bach yet.

 

[Eric Swanson]

What about the violin sonatas and partitas for violin? Any attempt on bass? I don't see any reason for not using those that don't use quadruple stopping.

I used to have a (vinyl) recording of Rodion Azahrkin playing the "Chaconne"...it was pretty inspirational.

It was on a record called, "Incredible Virtuoso Performances on the Double Bass," on some Soviet-era label, as I recall. I got my copy in 1978, or so.

Only bassist I have heard play that movement of that piece. Are there others?

 

[Buxtehude]

I also play Bach's 2 part inventions with my students. Most can easily be adapted as bass duets:

 

[Papa Dangerous]

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[Papa Dangerous]

I took a listen to cello suites after this thread. The most recognizable one was Cello Suite 1 - Prelude. I assume this is the most known of his cello suites? Listened to it about seven times and now I am home practicing it. Wow. I have been playing long enough (in general) to grasp it easily but executing it smoothly is going to take some time.

I will be adding this to a warm up routine I highly recommend it to all xD

 

[mattgray]

Bert Turetzky says a first class instrument doesn't play transcriptions in public.

I'd much rather play a Bach suite in public than L'Elephant.

 

[A Spotless Mind]

All I have to say is watch this video and prepared to be absolutely blown away.

Bach cello suite no. 6, Prelude- Rex Surany Double Bass - YouTube