• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

What is jazz?

E

Elrend

Feb 24, 2008
1,061
10
Norway
#1
Well the thread title sums it up, what is jazz today?

Does jazz remain simply a genre or an artform? Is it all improvisational music?

Today we see jazz musicians borrow equally from bebop, post-bop, alternative rock, post-rock, hip hop, contemporary classical... There truly is no unified jazz sound!

So I ask you, is jazz straight-ahead or "modern creative"? Is Wynton Marsalis or Dave Douglas the future?

discuss:
 
#3
Defintely 'modern creative'...the 'Jazz' that we know and love was modern creative when it came out, so the same is true now. Music is living and alive. Wynton is a killer player/composer but talks/laments to much about the past for me. Those dudes he loves and tries to emulate didn't do that..they just played.

Everything moves at about the same speed as the times. Rap is the new Blues. If you really listen they are talking about the same things....Money-Women-Respect
 
#4
HeadyVan Halen said:
Defintely 'modern creative'...the 'Jazz' that we know and love was modern creative when it came out, so the same is true now. Music is living and alive. Wynton is a killer player/composer but talks/laments to much about the past for me. Those dudes he loves and tries to emulate didn't do that..they just played.

Everything moves at about the same speed as the times. Rap is the new Blues. If you really listen they are talking about the same things....Money-Women-Respect
Click to expand...

Then why does one see endless discussions on Charlie Parker licks and the good ol' walking bass, while newer musicians go virtually unnoticed?
 
#5
Not saying we shouldn't pay our respects to the old stuff, but usually whatever is more popular 'defines' the sound..When I 1st got into blues I only knew of BB..but now I hardly ever listen to BB, but to who BB listened to...it's funny because usually the underground influences the mainstream which in turn re-influences the underground and so the cycle continues......Albert Collins is the man when it comes to I-IV-V
 
#6
Due to the fragmentation of styles in jazz there truly is no definition that everyone would agree with. Personally, I feel that jazz should always be striving to evolve and progress, but many do not think that. To one person, Chris Botti could be the epitome of jazz, to another, John Zorn.

Being a fan of improvised music I can't say how many times I go to hear music and there are people there (often senior citizens but not always) who show up and it seems like they saw the word jazz in the paper and came to the gig without really knowing what they were getting into. A lot of times they leave, but sometimes they don't. That just shows that there is so much happening that calling something "Jazz" doesn't tell you much more than just calling it "Music".

I saw Dave Holland with Chris Potter, Eric Harland and Jason Moran somewhat recently, 80 percent (at least) of the audience appeared to be senior citizens with seasons tickets at the venue. After the gig I was walking out and I hear an older lady say to a gentleman, "So that's what they call modern jazz huh?" I really got a kick out of that one
 
#7
doberman said:
I saw Dave Holland with Chris Potter, Eric Harland and Jason Moran somewhat recently, 80 percent (at least) of the audience appeared to be senior citizens with seasons tickets at the venue. After the gig I was walking out and I hear an older lady say to a gentleman, "So that's what they call modern jazz huh?" I really got a kick out of that one
Click to expand...

Haha, I love it when I overhear stuff like that. I saw the Portico Quartet (which is very minimalist, and it was a huge concert hall) and these two ladies a couple of rows ahead of me started clapping right after a sax solo, only the two of them... even the sax player chuckled at it!
 
#10
Elrend said:
Then why does one see endless discussions on Charlie Parker licks and the good ol' walking bass, while newer musicians go virtually unnoticed?
Click to expand...
Because you can't be jazz expert unless you are a traditionalist and anything new is to be hated.

It's funny that jazz experts get so insulted and angry when you tell them that jazz is dead, yet they can't acknowledge any jazz greatness past 1969, and even that's a stretch for a lot of jazz lovers. lol jazz isn't dead but it's just been standing still for 40 years lol right

I think today's jazz is showing two specific schools--you've got the marsalis school where they just keep rehashing the old sound, and then you've got the new school with people like Dave Holland, Nils Petter Molvaer, Bill Frisell, and Tomasz Stanko, who all (to me) are taking jazz in a new direction--you can still see where they came from, but at the same time, they aren't rehashing old sounds
 
#11
Well, like any traditional art form in our current time, a lot of Jazz is being looked at like a museum piece, which also is a lot of what Classical music suffers from. That doesn't mean that there isn't innovation happening though, and there are plenty of people that are stretching the boundaries in both genres. But, there are probably more that want to keep them in their respective boxes. There is room for both mentalities, because John Coltrane still has things to teach us, and so does Bill Frisell. It's the same reason that people listen to Handel and Verdi: each has something interesting to say, and at least in the Handel you can improvise a lot.

For me, Jazz is music that features both composed and improvised elements, where the musicians are able to make more than the sum of a song's parts by adding in their own expressive energies and creative dictionaries. Matters much less what the sound is like in particular as long as it has those components.
 
#12
Well - Jazz to me, is more alive than rock music. So for many years I went to rock gigs and found them exciting - but then you realise it's the same thing every time - whereas Jazz gigs are genuinely exciting as the music changes every night and even if the musicians start with the same tune - it becomes something different every night!

I go to Jazz Summerschool each year and there is so much variety in the music that is played - there is room for everything as long as there are elements of improvisation - but that can vary from no preconceived idea at all - to improvised solos over a chord sequence and everywhere inbetween!
 
#15
Just look up some basic info on species of animals and evolution, and it gives you an analogy of how music develops.

If its descended from a early 1900's american jazz influence thats good enough for me.

Arguing about arbitrary titles is so boooooooooooooring.

With animals there are species, but since music doesnt seem to have any limitations on breeding, I dont think descriptions are really that important.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back