• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

What is jazz?

#21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TebUMhJAKSM

but seriously, if someone asked me the question i'd respond

"an artistic culture, that extends beyond the actual music."

i don't see much point in going into musical specifics, because jazz as a whole is just too diverse to make consistent cross-comparisons. jazz is a culture: it entails a certain mode of thought, an observance of tradition (whether evident in performance or not), and a set of musical and social expectations among both performers and the audience. jazz is a culture the same way irish step-dancing, polka, and indie rock are cultures...each has a specific set of associations that people have maintained over a period of time.
 
#22
svtb15 said:
My friend says that she would "rather die in a fire than have to listen to jazz"..
I just call it musical masturbation...
I have done my share of jazz gigs.. not my cup of tea at all......
Click to expand...

To each their own. But, I'm in the same boat.
i've been studying jazz at school now for nearly 5 years, so it's been pretty intensive.

I JUST DON'T GET IT. I respect it as a virtuosic artform, but I don't enjoy playing it at all, there are a HANDFUL of jazz musicians I like listening to like Pat Metheny. But even so, it's his more "Fusion" stuff.

To the OP. I have no idea what jazz is. it's something one finds out on their own.
 
#23
Im a mercenary.. I play whatever someone is paying me to play....

Im not the only one picking on jazz here... But i'm the only one that didnt say it in kids gloves and real gentle like.. So i hurt the kiddies feelings.. sorry..


OmnitzGarima said:
Then why bother posting on a thread exploring the meaning of jazz? What do you play? Please let us all know, so that we can rain on YOUR parade.
Click to expand...
 
#24
There are only a few virtuosos.. Coltrane, Porter, Corea and others...
but there are many wankers that play jazz with no feeling at all...ever go to UNT in Texas? many kids with jazz chops but saying nothing musically....They can solve the math problem but they cant pass the test...

its the same with heavy rock guitars the kids playing a million notes yet saying nothing... I rather listen to Jeff Beck play one note. to me his one note paints a million words ......

and nothing is worse than smooth jazz.. that isnt jazz.. IMO


Mark Wilson said:
To each their own. But, I'm in the same boat.
i've been studying jazz at school now for nearly 5 years, so it's been pretty intensive.

I JUST DON'T GET IT. I respect it as a virtuosic artform, but I don't enjoy playing it at all, there are a HANDFUL of jazz musicians I like listening to like Pat Metheny. But even so, it's his more "Fusion" stuff.

To the OP. I have no idea what jazz is. it's something one finds out on their own.
Click to expand...
 
#26
yup that is musical masturbation too..
it comes in all forms.. not just jazz..
I just happen to see it more in jazz since i hate to go see rock bands live....

Jim Campbell said:
the notes make far more sense when you open your ears and your mind and listen to them.....wanking on the same pentatonic box solos by some overpaid rock star is what i'd call musical masturbation
Click to expand...
 
#27
I really wonder if jazz was inherently as technical as it has become. What has been incorporated into jazz "theory" must have been innovations and not necessarily consequences of theory.

Also, as for all other forms of music, jazz musicians need to constantly innovate and combine jazz with other musical forms to maintain its novelty and freshness. On the contrary, certain jazz "pioneers" abhor the latter.

All of this is just my 0.02, of course :)
 
#28
Mark Wilson said:
To each their own. But, I'm in the same boat.
i've been studying jazz at school now for nearly 5 years, so it's been pretty intensive.

I JUST DON'T GET IT. I respect it as a virtuosic artform, but I don't enjoy playing it at all, there are a HANDFUL of jazz musicians I like listening to like Pat Metheny. But even so, it's his more "Fusion" stuff.

To the OP. I have no idea what jazz is. it's something one finds out on their own.
Click to expand...

I didn't get Jazz when I was in my 20s and never got into it until my 40s. I think you have to have some "life experience" to understand Jazz and appreciate it.

Of course - many of the Jazz "greats" started when they were very young - but if you read about them, they crammed huge amounts of of life experience into a short space - they played every night - all night in packed clubs! And they practiced all day!

Nowadays - in our comfortable lives - Jazz seems meaningless and it is only when people have "something to say" that the are ready for Jazz - those who think it is musical masturbation either just don't understand it or are not listening to the right stuff!

So the point is that a musician who has nothing to say is just playing with themself - but the essence of Jazz is about collective improvisation, reacting to what is going on around you and playing with other people - the very opposite!

I see many gutarists just running Blues Scales as Jim says - but you know a real Jazz musician, when they are not doing this and who are telling the audience a story through a solo and who are having a conversation with both their fellow musicians and the audience - that's what Jazz is all about and as I say, is in fact the exact opposite of musical masturbation! By definition!!

PS - I agree that so-called 'Smooth Jazz' is not Jazz in any way!
 
#31
Bruce Lindfield said:
Nowadays - in our comfortable lives - Jazz seems meaningless and it is only when people have "something to say" that the are ready for Jazz - those who think it is musical masturbation either just don't understand it or are not listening to the right stuff!
Click to expand...

As a jazz appreciator, I will still admit there is a certain group of "jazz" musicians who are into musical masturbation, as well as I think there are songs that are all about it too (i know, similar, but I am saying the song calls for it, and no matter the player, it just demands wanking)

But I think to say that jazz is strictly *not* musical masturbation is false--it's just like rock, country, polka, etc they all have their wankers and they all have their conversationalists

that's what Jazz is all about and as I say, is in fact the exact opposite of musical masturbation! By definition!!
Click to expand...

lol and what is the opposite of this? lol my mind is wandering
 
#33
superbassman2000 said:
As a jazz appreciator, I will still admit there is a certain group of "jazz" musicians who are into musical masturbation, as well as I think there are songs that are all about it too (i know, similar, but I am saying the song calls for it, and no matter the player, it just demands wanking)

But I think to say that jazz is strictly *not* musical masturbation is false--it's just like rock, country, polka, etc they all have their wankers and they all have their conversationalists



lol and what is the opposite of this? lol my mind is wandering
Click to expand...


Well - as I said in my post - the opposite of "playing with yourself" - is playing with other people - having a true conversation!

I do believe that it is not Jazz unless you are responding "in the moment", to what is going on and that is why "Smooth Jazz" is not Jazz at all when it it just about pre-pogrammed beats and no interaction!
 
#35
KJung said:
Dude... that was 50 years ago:hiding: You are making my point:p
Click to expand...

Well - the point is it requires a bit af work and dedication - young people today want instant gratification - it's about the dumbing-down of society. 50 years ago, young people were prepared to work hard enough - but nowadays it's only older people who are prepared to put the effort in! :p
 
#37
Bruce Lindfield said:
Well - as I said in my post - the opposite of "playing with yourself" - is playing with other people - having a true conversation!
Click to expand...

What i found funny was that playing with yourself is a sexual reference, while playing with others is a perfectly public socially-accepted activity.

I say we now call jazz "musical intercourse"

in daily usage it would sound like an aristocrats joke about the drummer and the bassist engaging in musical intercourse while the saxophone player was in front just musically masturbating

...


...THE ARISTOCRATS!
 
#39
Bruce Lindfield said:
Well - the point is it requires a bit af work and dedication - young people today want instant gratification - it's about the dumbing-down of society. 50 years ago, young people were prepared to work hard enough - but nowadays it's only older people who are prepared to put the effort in! :p
Click to expand...

:D Sounds like every old guy talking about every young guy.

Example:

Big Band Trumpet player in 1940: 'Yeah, all these guys want to do is solo over changes at fast tempo's. No one can read accurately and use dynamics any more. If only these people would get disciplined and the listener would make the effort... THE BIG BANDS WOULD BE BACK' :D:D:D

I'm of course being a little silly to make a point... but not that silly. As one who made his living playing jazz gigs for many, many years through the 80's (before all the jazz gigs died), I surely respect the music. I find much of the pop music I mostly do today equally challenging to PLAY CORRECTLY (accurately, grooving, etc.). It's a different kind of conversation within the musical unit, but an equally difficult one IMO.

I just was never one to 'look back' and hang onto something that is, for all purposes, a dead art form. That being said, I like burning over Stella as much as anyone. I just realize that it is more for self gratification than for anything that is relevant to anyone anymore.

IMO!
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back