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What is the inherent problem with a 4x10?

#61
ishouldbeking said:
But I wonder how much an audience really cares if the full frequency response of my bass is being properly dispersed when my guitarist is beaming all his highs straight out of an AC-30 horizontal 2x12... with an open-backed cabinet.
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Don't matter - WE care :cool: . Anybody in the audience will park their arses over by the bass amp anyways so they don't have to listen to YASLG (yet another stoopid loud guitarist) :p .
 
#62
billfitzmaurice said:
With a 4x10, or any cab that's short, it's really hard to tell on stage where the mids drop out because those directional frequencies are passing you by below the belt, so you can't hear them really well anywhere. In the audience the difference between on and off-axis can be more obvious.
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So if someone does use a traditional 4x10 (they're not perfect, but are readily available, and often very cheaply), what's a good way to get the thing up closer to ear level?

I've seen plenty of amp stands meant for little combo amps, but I don't think I've seen one that would be suitable for a 4x10.
 
#63
shoot-r said:
Tom,
What's your full and finial opinion on those Ampeg 210 cabinets?
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These cabs are great, and they are reminiscent in many ways of the one of a good SVT 8x10. They aren't designed to be as full-range or as "transparent" as many other 2x10's on the market, but for what they were designed to do, they do that very well. :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :cool:
 
#66
ishouldbeking said:
. no matter how much thought we bassists might put into things like stage dispersion, I can't imagine any guitarist buying into it. .
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Perhaps with age comes wisdom? I did a reunion gig a week ago with four guitar players who all have worked with my drummer and myself at some point since 1980. All four are now running 1x12 combos. It was a typical 200 seat club gig, only vocals and drums in the PA, and no one had any problems being heard throughout the room. Nor did anyone use or need earplugs, either on stage or in the audience.
Eventually most players come around to the realization that playing stupid loud isn't cool, it's just stupid.
 
#70
Hi Ken,

How do you think the 2x12's stacked would sound for reggae. I think phenominal. What power would I need to power them adequatley?
KJung said:
Here is a clip of both of them side by side. The AE212 has a bit more deep low end and a bit smoother up top (and has a bonus in that it is a bit smaller and lighter and also the... IMO minor... dispersion advantage) than the AE410, so that's the way I'd go if you like the AE voicing. They are very punchy, have a nice round low end, and nice 'presence up top'. Not cheap, but IMO a good value.

The only downside is that the very nice looking spray on finish is a bit fragile.. the padded cover is a must to keep them looking good.

Here's the clip, although my tone is about as far away from a classic reggae thing as you can get:D Might still be helpful to you. 4ohm cab... kicks with 400-600 watts.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
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#71
Konan888 said:
Hi Ken,

How do you think the 2x12's stacked would sound for reggae. I think phenominal. What power would I need to power them adequatley?
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Well, if you have the big bucks and can get two of them, you would be good to go for anything that possible would come up.

They are pretty high SPL (loud per watt), so 500 or so watts per cab gets them pumping. A TBer just put up a review of a 2 x AE212 rig with an EA iAmp Pro (1200 watts at 2ohms).

I guess if I was going to do that, I'd consider the Genz Shuttle 12... 600 watts per side, and lots of tone control.

Lots of cash, and lots to schlepp, but I'm pretty sure that would do the job!
 
#72
rpsands "If you took any decent 4x10 and made it in a line array form factor, it'd sound just as good and be easier for you to hear close up. A line array 4x10 would even fit in the back of a car better, although not a trunk necessarily."

I would love to see this . Make it about 17" wide so you could put a horn with a good compession driver on it beside the top ten . Or use a 10' speaker with a coax arrangement . Tilt back wheels and a handle on the back would be pretty cool .
 
#73
ishouldbeking said:
what I find interesting re: this whole debate... when placed into the context of a traditional rock band (bass, guitars, drums)... no matter how much thought we bassists might put into things like stage dispersion, I can't imagine any guitarist buying into it. and therefore, there are probably very few guitar cabinets that would feature the ideal positioning anyway... mostly rendering the whole point rather moot, no?

Given, just cuz one or two members of the band are going to ignore science doesn't mean we should too... But I wonder how much an audience really cares if the full frequency response of my bass is being properly dispersed when my guitarist is beaming all his highs straight out of an AC-30 horizontal 2x12... with an open-backed cabinet.
Click to expand...

Guitarist have way more toys than we do, but I don't think they're quite as open minded about instruments and gear as bassists (Not to get into another subject). One area where we seem to have more variety is in the cabinet department. Why not embrace this unique fact and be proud of efforts to improve it?
 
#74
Blues Bass 2 said:
rpsands "If you took any decent 4x10 and made it in a line array form factor, it'd sound just as good and be easier for you to hear close up. A line array 4x10 would even fit in the back of a car better, although not a trunk necessarily."

I would love to see this . Make it about 17" wide so you could put a horn with a good compession driver on it beside the top ten . Or use a 10' speaker with a coax arrangement . Tilt back wheels and a handle on the back would be pretty cool .
Click to expand...
It would basically be a narrow Fridge. Properly engineered with the right drivers it would be just as loud as the real thing, but with twice the dispersion.
 
#76
billfitzmaurice said:
Perhaps with age comes wisdom? I did a reunion gig a week ago with four guitar players who all have worked with my drummer and myself at some point since 1980. All four are now running 1x12 combos. It was a typical 200 seat club gig, only vocals and drums in the PA, and no one had any problems being heard throughout the room. Nor did anyone use or need earplugs, either on stage or in the audience.
Eventually most players come around to the realization that playing stupid loud isn't cool, it's just stupid.
Click to expand...

that is pretty interesting. actually, my other guitarist plays through a 1x12 Rivera combo and the thing sounds fantastic. nice, even dispersion, great tone all around... and it's compact and light to boot. but our lead guitarist has experimented a bit with amps and come full circle back to the ac-30. he tried to make do with ac-15 1x12, but it didn't have nearly the headroom to do clean stuff (which is 75% of our stuff anyway), and with those AC amps if you don't go for the alnico blues you lose half the tone, and of course they only handle a few watts anyway... and then they STILL blow at the most inopportune times... I do not envy the guitarist looking for the perfect chimey-tone in a live environment.
 
#79
#80
He wants to play reggae. Dunno about you guys but my impression of reggae is you want loads of down low feel and thump and don't give a stuff about high mids and highs. The audience wants to feel ya, not hear ya. So, stick em low down on the floor, forget line arrays and go go go! Hi-fi is not where it's at?!
 

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