A quality horn around 2khz and it'd have dispersion all the way to 5khz or higher
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What is the inherent problem with a 4x10?
- Thread starter Konan888
- Start date
A quality horn around 2khz and it'd have dispersion all the way to 5khz or higher
aside from the "too narrow for the head" thing it would seem from a ton of ink on here that 2 vertical/identical 2x10's @ 4 ohms combined would/should be the hot ticket....those too cheap to buy a dolly might decry the extra trip loading in,but this seems like a worthy compromiseIf I was to build a cab these days I'd give serious consideration to a vertical 3x10.
light enough,will fit in most cars,high enough to hear ones self ,no off axis problems,loud enough for most rooms....
yeah, it's so hard to find a mic that's suitable for micing a bass cab. hell, you might actually have to go to a music store.Where did you read this and who wrote it? The 410 and 810 are pretty much "the" standards of bass cabinetry. This isn't new, either. If you're attempting to replicate earth and bowel-shattering lows with a cabinet on stage (which you shouldn't be anyway) then just get a subwoofer onstage. A 410 isn't meant to substitute for a PA, nor is any bass cab. And if you're not miking your cab in the first place, it really doesn't matter b/c it's just a heavy monitor. And even if you are, you'd be hard-pressed to find a mic that will replicate your bass frequencies as even and full as a DI.
Your thread = head hurt.
Ok ok so now we've established that the 410 is not designed perfectly (as we already knew) but I have yet to see a post that details the correct way to built a 410 to overcome these issues? Does the design exist yet?
20.5" wide by 16" deep by 42" tall, with 4 x 4" tube ports 7 1/16" deep. Roughly, tuning might need to be slightly adjusted.
Drivers directly vertical but offset to the right.
I'd use Basslite S2010s.
If you need a horn, I'd use an 18 sound XD125. There should be enough baffle space (8" x 6").
That should give you -3db @ 56hz, -10db @ 40hz, roughly.
Sensitivity'd be about 101db ( >105 in the upper midrange), about 300 watt displacement limited power handling.
The crossover would be the complex part; you'd want to do around 2khz for optimal polar response, and want some compensation built in for the excessive sensitivity of the 18 sound horn (109db) and also for the huge peak at 2500hz that the Basslites have.
Sounds like an interesting design, kind of like a ported 410 version of the Berg NV610 in looks with a horn? maybe we should draw this up and see if anyone is interested in testing it out...
So the mid driver the Fearful type designs utilize is a non issue with 10" drivers?
So the mid driver the Fearful type designs utilize is a non issue with 10" drivers?
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
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- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
This one dates to 1962, and it was far from the first:
Invalid Link Removed
That's a PA column, but with a larger box and bass drivers it would have been fine for bass. It's how guitar cabs should have been done also, but an amp wouldn't fit on top, so...
BTW, PA columns dominated until roughly 1970, when they were abruptly replaced by trapezoidal cluster array cabs. The reason? Untrained PA operators didn't understand how columns worked, and insisted on putting PA cabs side by side to get wider dispersion. The PA industry willingly obliged, and concert sound suffered for 30 years until the re-emergence of line arrays.
actually my brother (guitar player) still has two vertical 410 open back marshall columns just like that! 16 ohms each? I wonder if they were actually meant for guitar or as PA speakers?
if i was doing reggae i would use 2x 15 cab. to my ears reggae as tubster said doesnt have much going on above 300 hz? then again maybe reggae has changed. johnny a/ staind
That was true last century - plenty of narrow micro-heads these days
IME two stacked 10's is too low to hear well and four stacked is awesome but 3 stacked in a cab would be OK too - and possibly a 3x10 would still a one hand carry if made light with neos? One could even get fancy and have custom drivers made to make the cab 4 ohms
.
IMO, the inherent problem with 4x10 cabs is that they are too darn heavy (i.e. SWR Goliath)! Lugging that thing in and out of your vehicle, clubs (sometimes up or down the stairs), your pad, etc. can get old pretty quickly. I bought a SWR Basic Black (1x15 plus a 2" tweeter) in 1998 and it's been the best investment. One trip into a club. Bass bag on my back while easily carrying the 40 lb combo. I can extract all kinds of tones from this very simple set-up (i.e. no parametric). I've even used it on big stages and it monitors just fine. Plenty of headroom. Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of 4x10s, but the 1x15 has served me well for 1000s of gigs. Peace. 
IMO, the inherent problem with 4x10 cabs is that they are too darn heavy (i.e. SWR Goliath)! Lugging that thing in and out of your vehicle, clubs (sometimes up or down the stairs), your pad, etc. can get old pretty quickly. I bought a SWR Basic Black (1x15 plus a 2" tweeter) in 1998 and it's been the best investment. One trip into a club. Bass bag on my back while easily carrying the 40 lb combo. I can extract all kinds of tones from this very simple set-up (i.e. no parametric). I've even used it on big stages and it monitors just fine. Plenty of headroom. Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of 4x10s, but the 1x15 has served me well for 1000s of gigs. Peace.
Many 55-65 pound 410's now that sound better than the old boat anchors. Put a set of castors on them, head and stand on top, bass on back, and you have the easiest load in ever... no cart needed, and you can knock a wall down if you want
Many 55-65 pound 410's now that sound better than the old boat anchors. Put a set of castors on them, head and stand on top, bass on back, and you have the easiest load in ever... no cart needed, and you can knock a wall down if you want
I'm beginning to think this way. I am waiting for the GB Uber Quad to show up so I can try it with a Shuttle 9.0 and see how it goes. I also love that head with the Uber 410. Way overkill (more so in size than volume/tone as stage space is limited and if it's at my feet I can't hear) for my gigs, but it sounds so good.
I'd need big casters as I need to roll through snow.
IMO, You never get the true tone of the bass cab with any kind of close mic technique. The sound waves of an E string don't formulate till about 26' in front of the cab. Simple Physics. What you hear on stage is not what the audience is hearing. DI is the only way too go.
This one dates to 1962, and it was far from the first:
Invalid Link Removed
That's a PA column, but with a larger box and bass drivers it would have been fine for bass. It's how guitar cabs should have been done also, but an amp wouldn't fit on top, so...
BTW, PA columns dominated until roughly 1970, when they were abruptly replaced by trapezoidal cluster array cabs. The reason? Untrained PA operators didn't understand how columns worked, and insisted on putting PA cabs side by side to get wider dispersion. The PA industry willingly obliged, and concert sound suffered for 30 years until the re-emergence of line arrays.
Didn't the Grateful Dead have a famous line array system way back?
Many 55-65 pound 410's now that sound better than the old boat anchors. Put a set of castors on them, head and stand on top, bass on back, and you have the easiest load in ever... no cart needed, and you can knock a wall down if you want
I've always had the hardest time rolling a bass cab up or down a set of stairs.
That was a bit different.. the famous 'wall of sound'. That actually was not even a PA, but a HUGE backline system, with a separate system for each instrument (bass, guitar, drum, vocals, etc.). The 'mixer' balanced the volume of all those separate rigs. Each system did have vertically stacked speakers though. Pretty amazing in concept I guess.... basically using massive backline, and then given all the volume knobs to a sound guy!
