What makes fEARFUL Cabs so scary?

[swspiers]

FYI, way back when, a couple of the TBers who used Acme speakers were into the concept of a full range, full sounding bass speaker that 'fixed' some of the things they (and others, including me) didn't like about the Acme's:


IMO and a lot of IME

+1, and I think this gets lost in a lot of the controversy surrounding these cabs. There isn't some mega-funded marketing machine spreading propaganda about these cabs- they are literally a work of passion from bass players who wanted something different.

I can see how some of the ff and Barefaced faithful may seem arrogant, smug and condescending. 3 years ago I found the whole fEARful thing annoying. At the urging of Bill Fitzmaurice, I did some investigating, read the FAQ's, the "Boutique 3-Way Cab on a Budget" threads and just paid attention to what they were saying.

A lot of the techno stuff some of these guys can spew still goes over my head, but I have enough of an electronics background to grok at least some of it.

Go figure, now I own a 1212/6/1. I love it! I admire other designs, I just don't gas for them...

 

[CL400Peavey]

There isn't some mega-funded marketing machine spreading propaganda about these cabs- they are literally a work of passion from bass players who wanted something different.

+1

greenboy/fEARful/fEARless advertising budget = $0

This is all word of mouth with a lot of passion.

 

[smeet]

He was positive about my comment

Luckyyyyyy!

I know quite well how low frequencies sound... The frequencies you guys talk about are the ones Michael Bay loves to put on his movies and some home systems won't reproduce.

Greenboy's aim as I recall was to give good solid reproduction of the second harmonic of a low B, which is around 60Hz. Not in the range of movie subs.

Reading the other posts I see the fEARfuls being compared with the ACMEs. Is that so?

I've played through ACMEs many, many times... Not bashing the brand, nice cabs for great price. But nothing really special... Quiet and power hungry little things. Not sure if I'll be understood here, but not enough grace and excitement on ACMEs.

Acmes and fEARfuls don't sound alike, other than the fact that they both can reproduce low frequencies better than most other cabinets. But obviously I'm not going to convince you of anything, so I'll stop trying.

If you find yourself in the LA area, feel free to give me a buzz and you can check out my 15/6/1.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

FYI, way back when, a couple of the TBers who used Acme speakers were into the concept of a full range, full sounding bass speaker that 'fixed' some of the things they (and others, including me) didn't like about the Acme's:

1) So much low end extension that the trade-off in efficiency to get what amounted to sub bass was not particularly a useful trade-off in live performance

2) The small mid driver in the Acme tended to become buried by the big wump of the low end driver

3) The physical characteristics of the OEM Acme 10" drivers resulted in the strange combination of needing a LOT of power to get the things pumping, but pushed the limit of thermal safety and XLIM.

So, these two TBers (AlexClaber and Greenboy) started down the path of taking what was good about the Acme (full range performance with impressive low end and no low mid hump, nice dispersion of the upper mids, relatively small size), and 'fixing' 1-3 above (and, for the Acme fans, many believe these fixes were not needed).

Those two guys ended up being 'Barefaced Cabs' in the UK, and fEARful over here. Using the PA quality 3015(12)LF drivers, various heavy duty 6.5" mid drivers, decent crossovers, and a relatively large box made out of lightweight materials, I think they were successful.

What you get is more absolute low end extension than the typical production cab, but not so much to be a problem regarding efficiency (I believe most of the designs are -3db a touch above 40hz). You also get a mid driver that can keep up with the low end so you don't lose your definition on stage, and you also get INCREDIBLE XMAX and XLIM specs that result in a very open, even low end, even when slapping and digging in.

As has been posted, all these cabs have a voice, and the extended low end and bright upper mids are not necessarily the 'end all' in tone. However, the specs are accurate, and the performance is pretty impressive.

When you hear a Mesa M9 (for example), with literally no hi passing, wumping into a 15/6, whether you dig it or not, it is impressive as heck, especially if you have a nice traditional 410 or 212 around to A/B. You still might like the 212 (I prefer my Bergantino AE212 over virtually any other cab), but the 15/6 (much less the 1212/6) will 'outperform' it in a technical sense.

Again, just trying to clarify that even some of us (like me) that don't really appreciate the extra low end and the nature of the upper midrange in the fEARful, for the most part appreciate that the design goals of both Alex and Greenboy were achieved pretty nicely in each of their product lines.

IMO and a lot of IME

Great post, Ken. Thank you for providing a balanced take on things.

 

[swspiers]

+1

greenboy/fEARful/fEARless advertising budget = $0

This is all word of mouth with a lot of passion.

Yep.

I bought my cab third had. Original owner didn't dig it at all- I'm not sure what he went with, except that he's happy with it.

Second dude was thunderstruck by the cab, but after an hour realized with his style and tone goals, he simply did not need the 18Sound mid and tweeter. Commissioned himself a Dually, and got a Bassic 15 for practice.

I got a cab that can cop close to the Dually feel, and make use of my extended range bass, along with a whole bunch of effects and fuzz. It does take a bit of work to learn how to play through this, and I had to relearn EQ and gain staging from the ground up. Not a fault of the fEARful, it does what it's designed to do. It's my job to allow it to do that.

3 happy bass players, but only one fEARful. And not a bad word among the 3 of us.

 

[SRCRS]

So, I have a GB Shuttle 6.0 good pair with a 12/6/1? At 8ohms the head pumps out 375watts. the max for the 12/6's is like 533 so would underpowering the cab be a concern (and by concern im not worried about blowing the speaker

 

[lomo]

So, I have a GB Shuttle 6.0 good pair with a 12/6/1? At 8ohms the head pumps out 375watts. the max for the 12/6's is like 533 so would underpowering the cab be a concern (and by concern im not worried about blowing the speaker

You cannot underpower a cab. That's a myth. If you search the topic here you can read more. It has been discussed a lot


The rig you describe will work fine, but the pair of 12/6 cabs will sing merrier if they have even more power.

 

[swspiers]

So, I have a GB Shuttle 6.0 good pair with a 12/6/1? At 8ohms the head pumps out 375watts. the max for the 12/6's is like 533 so would underpowering the cab be a concern (and by concern im not worried about blowing the speaker

No way would that be a problem. I'm of the opinion that too much weight is given to watts.

Coming from a guy who has 1250 on tap at 4 ohms and 1500 watts sitting as back-up, that may seem funny though

 

[Downunderwonder]

+1

JimmyM said..................."Hitting the open E or B fundamental mark has never been important to me."


Speaking for myself, the sound and feeling an open E properly produced is what got me playing bass in the first place.

When my home stereo speakers faithfully produce the 35 hz (to 20,000 hz) frequency............I LOVE MUSIC!

When my Acme B-2 nails the open E on my J and P Bass.............I smile!

Dollars to donuts your Acme isn't nailing 41Hz, but it is nailing 82Hz.

Same with Jimmy's 8x10 going down to 60Hz for a passable bottom B. My Trace 1518 is just reaching 60Hz, the bottom D is much more real than B.

Please plug your computer into your Acme rig with a 80Hz sine wave, reducing the frequency while leaving the amp the same and you will hear what frequency it falls off the planet and starts to replace with harmonic distortion. Look out for your cones flapping madly long before you get to 30Hz. I'm dying to know the truth of Acmes.

 

[SRCRS]

Thanks for the info guys!

 

[mbelue]

So, I have a GB Shuttle 6.0 good pair with a 12/6/1? At 8ohms the head pumps out 375watts. the max for the 12/6's is like 533 so would underpowering the cab be a concern (and by concern im not worried about blowing the speaker

What are your volume needs? Where do you play, and who with?

 

[SRCRS]

well I play with a very loud drummer, and your standard, i need to be heard over everything guitar player, just a 3 piece playing your standard bars. so yeah, im sure im gonna hear about how i probably have too much rig for my gigs.

 

[rpsands]

The shuttle 6.0 wants to see a 4 ohm load, IMHO. Just feels anemic at 8 ohms. Not sure why. Just my opinion of course.

 

[fdeck]

Honestly? Reading the whole feeling I get a gut feeling that this is more hype than truth and I can sense that there's a bunch of fEARful lovers that haven't ever heard one.

That's me.

Seriously, I haven't heard a fEARul, but I've had conversations with Greenboy and other folks who are building and using the new high performance speakers. I am designing my own DIY speakers based on exactly the same principles, so I know what these folks are up to, and think that they are headed in the right direction.

In music gear, most times we see trends like this that seem too good to be true, are too good to be true...

Many of those trends weren't backed up by solid evidence. On the other hand, in the past few years we've seen a number of trends, where the technical community has had access to the evidence, and a number of these are solid. All of these things were dismissed as trends:

* Switchmode amplifiers
* Neo drivers
* Lightweight cab design

Given the history of the music gear industry, it's certainly wise to be suspicious of marketing hype. A new trend is that technical minded people are discussing the fundamentals of design, often abetted by a few generous folks from industry who are willing to share their knowledge. This provides an alternative to relying on marketing hype to assess the merits of new developments.

 

[swspiers]

Dollars to donuts your Acme isn't nailing 41Hz, but it is nailing 82Hz.

Same with Jimmy's 8x10 going down to 60Hz for a passable bottom B. My Trace 1518 is just reaching 60Hz, the bottom D is much more real than B.

Please plug your computer into your Acme rig with a 80Hz sine wave, reducing the frequency while leaving the amp the same and you will hear what frequency it falls off the planet and starts to replace with harmonic distortion. Look out for your cones flapping madly long before you get to 30Hz. I'm dying to know the truth of Acmes.

I believe the B-2 is -6 dB @ 31 Hz. I haven't measured them myself, but I have never, ever, seen a graph, chart or claim that these can't give a fundamental low B, let alone a fundamental E.

Pg. 50 of the latest Bass Gear Magazine shows a frequency response of the Low B-112 as -10 dB @ 25 Hz. Holy crap that's low!

I am prepared to be corrected though....

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

The shuttle 6.0 wants to see a 4 ohm load, IMHO. Just feels anemic at 8 ohms. Not sure why. Just my opinion of course.

+1

The shuttle 6.0 is not a great match for an 8 ohm cab.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I believe the B-2 is -6 dB @ 31 Hz. I haven't measured them myself, but I have never, ever, seen a graph, chart or claim that these can't give a fundamental low B, let alone a fundamental E.

Pg. 50 of the latest Bass Gear Magazine shows a frequency response of the Low B-112 as -10 dB @ 25 Hz. Holy crap that's low!

I am prepared to be corrected though....

Cool, some data!

If you compare loudness of a track at 0dB peak, -6dB and -10dB, then look at fletcher munsen curve for hearing sensitivity vs frequency you will come back with a new asssesment on the value of -10dB response. Inaudible is the word that comes to mind.

 

[KJung]

That is at 25 hz. The Acme cabs are designed to produce the fundamental of a low B. they do, but there is a big price to pay.

 

[swspiers]

Cool, some data!

If you compare loudness of a track at 0dB peak, -6dB and -10dB, then look at fletcher munsen curve for hearing sensitivity vs frequency you will come back with a new asssesment on the value of -10dB response. Inaudible is the word that comes to mind.

Agreed. I'm not going to hear 20 Hz, barely hear 25Hz. But you're gonna owe donuts for 41. I myself prefer apple fritters

 

[Downunderwonder]

Waterfall plot please.