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What the...Darkglass Vintage Microtubes?!?!
- Thread starter DeltaPhoenix
- Start date
I recently picked up both the B3K and VMT to see what all the fuss was about. I feel like I want to end the VT bass era on my pedalboard, though it's been a great run.
At first I could not get the B3K to sound anything like I wanted. It sounded super harsh running into the VT. Bypassing the VT bass and re configuring my amp for a more full sound (I run my Carbine super flat normally and let the VT do all the soundscaping) I can get a tone I really dig out of the VMT. I like it more than the B3K in that setting (which I think sounds much better when not preceeding the VT bass - for what its worth). However, running fuzzes into the VMT made them all sound too warm/mid centered/muffled.
I'm going to try running into it first and then everything else, but someone I've always relied upon was my VT Bass to "tame" my other fuzz pedals, which it did very well. Would like the same out of another preamp. After using the B3K direct, I'm now considering picking up the B7K as it sounds killer, but I'd like a little more tonal control for recording purposes.
Interesting in what other people think about running fuzzes into the VMT and B/K's. I was particularly put off by the way my Oxide sounded.
At first I could not get the B3K to sound anything like I wanted. It sounded super harsh running into the VT. Bypassing the VT bass and re configuring my amp for a more full sound (I run my Carbine super flat normally and let the VT do all the soundscaping) I can get a tone I really dig out of the VMT. I like it more than the B3K in that setting (which I think sounds much better when not preceeding the VT bass - for what its worth). However, running fuzzes into the VMT made them all sound too warm/mid centered/muffled.
I'm going to try running into it first and then everything else, but someone I've always relied upon was my VT Bass to "tame" my other fuzz pedals, which it did very well. Would like the same out of another preamp. After using the B3K direct, I'm now considering picking up the B7K as it sounds killer, but I'd like a little more tonal control for recording purposes.
Interesting in what other people think about running fuzzes into the VMT and B/K's. I was particularly put off by the way my Oxide sounded.
Definitely thinking of getting a VMT and a B7K
I want warm, vintage, classic tube tone
Now using BB Preamp with either a BDDI or a DHA VT-EQ
1. Would the B7K replace the BDDI and DHA?
2. Would the VMT work better with the B7K, BDDI, or DHA?
I want warm, vintage, classic tube tone
Now using BB Preamp with either a BDDI or a DHA VT-EQ
1. Would the B7K replace the BDDI and DHA?
2. Would the VMT work better with the B7K, BDDI, or DHA?
...And the search continues, right?
Our tastes are obviously very different, as I LOVE the mid-centered feel I get from the VMT after my Oxide. I run this: Oxide -> B7K -> VMT. The B7K brightens and "pseudo-scoops", while the VMT warms and middifies, so I can get a bunch of different tones by turning them on or off. I find the Oxide can get bright enough (especially followed by the B?K with attack on) to cut even through the VMT. For me, it's the first combination of drives I'm really happy with.
I have used a Team Awesome Fuzz Machine into a B3K for quite awhile and it sounds fantastic, though can need a little taming. The B3K always adds alot of high attack even without the Attack switch engaged- though the Fat setting of the Grunt switch can balance it out more if you like that tone. I usually use the "Raw" setting for the B3K and it can make the TAFM sound a little buzzy at some settings. So far I find I much prefer the Vintage after the TAFM because it does tame the tone quite a bit in a pleasing way and seems to focus the tone nicely- I actually find I can get away with using alot less Clean blend on the TAFM when combined with the Vintage too. Have you tried running your Vintage with the Blend turned full towards Drive? As I mentioned in an earlier post I find it to sound the best in my rig with little to no clean blend (it seems to muddy up a lot easier with clean blended in vs the B3K which NEEDS clean for my uses!). I use it into a DB750, which has a pretty huge pillowy low end, so the Vintage is a good complement. Though I had a Carbine before that I loved and it is almost the polar opposite tone-wise from the DB750!
For what its worth, I personally ditched my Oxide because I found it didn't seem to play that well with other pedals on my board that weren't other Iron Ether pedals. It could sound really muffled and farty in some situations or really thin and harsh in others, though sounded great to me on its own or in a Synth chain (OC-2 before it and Xerograph/Polytope after it).
For what its worth, I personally ditched my Oxide because I found it didn't seem to play that well with other pedals on my board that weren't other Iron Ether pedals. It could sound really muffled and farty in some situations or really thin and harsh in others, though sounded great to me on its own or in a Synth chain (OC-2 before it and Xerograph/Polytope after it).
I don't like fuzzes into any pedals, except maybe an EQ, because they always get squashed IME. Now, a slightly gained SFT into the VMT is a very awesome sound.
When I think warm tube tone, I think Catalinbread SFT all day long. The VMT nails a different style of tube tone, one that is more mid-present and trebly. The BB Preamp is much warmer to my ears, too, simply because you can crank the bass and cut the treble with the BB tone controls. You're not going to get Motown control board sound with the VMT, but you definitely get a legit tube amp sound. It's the first pedal I've tried that doesn't sound artificial at any setting. The BB, SFT, and most especially the BDDI (or any of the Tech21 stuff), will have chorus or phase effects from the emulation in certain ranges, making it sound synthetic, and the VMT just doesn't do that.
This was my very first thought. I mean, for me that never sounds good...
At the moment I really have no need at all for a distortion or overdrive... but you never know. I'm seriously considering a B3k now. Dammit.
im totally loving my vintage!
i had a massive mid boost (around 1khz) coming from a boss parametric EQ on my board, and that was giving me the perfect biting sound i was looking for, but left some of my high notes sounding a bit 'dry' and harsh, the vintage has softened these up and made them sound more organic/alive, but none of the GNARLY bass sound has gone.
i had a massive mid boost (around 1khz) coming from a boss parametric EQ on my board, and that was giving me the perfect biting sound i was looking for, but left some of my high notes sounding a bit 'dry' and harsh, the vintage has softened these up and made them sound more organic/alive, but none of the GNARLY bass sound has gone.
Soooo...first test in a band-setting today...i think i love this box!...now I need to find out where the knobs go for each song...but in my opinion it does the slightly overdriven and touch-sensitive stuff just awesomely well...this might actually really be an always-on kind-of-thing for me...and a pedal i really want to "get to know" further...plus it's way smaller than my vt bass deluxe, which will take a break while I try to figure out if I miss it...
Thanks...but now I'm a little confused......are you saying the SFT will get me there better than the BB or VMT? But I'll have phase issues? Didn't notice any phase issues with the BB.....yes, the BDDI is warm but don't like the emulation....so what exactly are you saying? The VMT has no phase issues but is not as warm as the BB, SFT or BDDI?
Thanks...but now I'm a little confused......are you saying the SFT will get me there better than the BB or VMT? But I'll have phase issues? Didn't notice any phase issues with the BB.....yes, the BDDI is warm but don't like the emulation....so what exactly are you saying? The VMT has no phase issues but is not as warm as the BB, SFT or BDDI?
It's all degrees and depends on your rig. All three are great pedals, and it depends on what your idea of "warm vintage tube" sound is, because that's different to everyone. The BB doesn't have any issues phasing, but especially in the higher notes you can hear a sort of chorus like effect that's a bit synthetic to my ears. This is going direct and listening through headphones and isn't really noticeable through a live amp and speaker cabinet, though the gain breakup makes the BB much less punchy than when you listen/record direct.
I think the VMT is warmer than most overdrives, but not as warm as the other pedals you're mentioning, and I think that has to do with the Baxandall tonestacks in those pedals. Because when I think of warm, I think of a tone knob rolled completely off, boosted lows and cut mids and highs. Tube warmth to me is a slightly compressed version of that, and these are just my personal takes.
The SFT clips posted in that other thread are very accurate, as are the clips of the VMT on the Darkglass YouTube vids. Those are good side-by-side comparisons to go with your own experience with the BDDI and BB preamp.
The SFT, BB, and VMT are all great pedals, so it's more a nuanced thing and what particular aspect of each one sounds better in your ears through your rig. You really just have to try pedals out to be sure. That's the beauty of the TB classifieds. I have been trying to go down to just one drive pedal, but those three do their own thing so well and so differently from each other.
Like they say, it's easy to get 90% of the way to your ideal tone. That other 10% can take a lifetime and a lot of cash.
I have concern about beer on my pedals in general, but my problem with this jack is that stepping on the pedal to engage it shifts the pedal enough to make the barrel of my power supply touch the case and short out all of the power, making it impossible to turn the pedal on without leaning over and touching the switch gently. Might not be a problem if I go ahead and rip the feet off and put velcro on to keep the pedal more steady.
I've noticed this on other pedals that don't have the plastic gromet mount on the power input. Wonder if i can coat the opening with something non-conductive that won't interfere with anything.
And you could always spray a little on a fingernail brush and quickly but neatly dab it around the hole. I assume it doesn't dry immediately on contact....
What you describe as "tube warmth" seems like a pretty extreme example to me. Having owned a handful of tube amps to reference from- they certainly all have their characteristic voicing as emulated by the sansamp and sft, but nowhere near the extreme you describe. Sounds to me almost like you are trying to emulate flatwound strings using rounds.
Using my flatwound equipped p-bass into the Darkglass Vintage I get something approaching the mid-focus and touch-sensitive grit that I attribute to a pushed tube amp, and I leave the voicing to my amp's eq.
While I found the voicing of the bddi and VT to do a decent job of emulating the eq curves of certain tube amps, I find the Vintage to do a much better job at emulating the characteristics of tubes in general, allowing you to shape it as you want. I do agree about the synthetic quality of most drive pedals which the Darkglass pedals don't have- and many pedals use fairly extreme voicing to try to obscure. It seems to my ears that this comes down to a shaping of the signal going into/out of the clipping section that focuses the majority of the effect to the mids without causing the muddy lows or harsh highs of many other pedals.
We do all hear things differently though! FWIW- I have never owned an SFT or VT, but have owned a BB and BDDI and played a VT (and countless other drive pedals).
Quite right....that last 10% has got me going nuts...I'll just have to buy them all........lol
Oh man you just summed it up perfectly about that last %10!! Hahahaha. It's so so true for me too. I am almost to the tone I hear in my head but just not quite. I still have a lot of testing to do 
Yeah, that's fair. I do think of the Motown sound automatically when I think of warmth. I gigged just one tube amp for a lot of years, and the main thing that stood out to me when I went back to SS was the delay of note attack and the natural compression/"softening of the edges" that tubes have. I was on a Bassman, which is not really a bass amp by some opinions, heh. It never really got into the grind zone when pushed, so my tube experience is admittedly limited there. I still think of "warmth" as naturally an EQ thing, with maybe a little bit having to do with sustain when it comes to tubes.
I would definitely be interested in what others think of when they hear "tube warmth", especially as it relates to the Vintage Microtubes, as opposed to any other characteristic of tubes (like the touch responsiveness, overdrive abilities, etc). Or are those other characteristics part of the warmth equation?
