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What to Do With Creased Acme Drivers?

#81
WCunha said:
I know this is an old thread but I was searching for some answers and my B2 doesn't seem to get stupid loud. I would like it to though since I love the tone it puts out.

I just had a practice last night in a small room with a loud drummer and one loud guitar player and I have to say my one Acme B2 just could not keep up on its own and I really don't want to drag my second one over there.

I love the sound of them and have had them for quite a long time but I do get nervous about damaging them. I think a big part of it is that the guitar player just doesn't know how to dial in his tone. It can be so drowning in a little room. I'm thinking of changing cabs that I can slap the snot out of.

I do need something that is full range like a PA cab. I use a Pod X3 as my preamp and have had great success with the tone. I love the tone but I need something loud. Power shouldn't be a problem I use a Peavey DPC1400X bridged. If I had the time I think I would build a fEarful.
Click to expand...

LDS can build a 15/6 for you that would solve your issues IMO. Not much heavier than the B210... a bit larger of course, but much punchier, and without that need for hi passing and all that stuff. Amazing cabs if you can get a nice 500 or so watts into them at 8ohms. They don't really need any more than that.

I now understand (from the EE's on this site) why the Acme's tend to run into trouble when really pushed.... it seems to be a design flaw with the drivers, which have huge xmax (i.e., they can piston a ton, producing massive deep low end), but if I'm understanding the EE stuff correctly, the xmech to xmax ratio (i.e., how much they can move versus when the movement causes problems) is much too low.

The Eminence LF drivers don't have this issue, and the boxes are tuned deep, but appropriately for full volume, deep performance. The mid drivers are also a universe above that little 5" driver in the Acme (which quickly gets overwhelmed when you crank that cab by the deep low end, resulting in a lock of upper mid articulation, and a perceived lack of volume).

IMO and painful IME.
 
#82
WCunha said:
I just had a practice last night in a small room with a loud drummer and one loud guitar player and I have to say my one Acme B2 just could not keep up on its own
Click to expand...
Small rooms and long wavelengths don't get along. Lift the cab to ear height to hear it and accept the fact that you're not going to have anything near the usual response in a small room.

I do need something that is full range like a PA cab.
Click to expand...
You already have it.
 
#83
billfitzmaurice said:
Small rooms and long wavelengths don't get along. Lift the cab to ear height to hear it and accept the fact that you're not going to have anything near the usual response in a small room.

You already have it.
Click to expand...

Good point... it is amazing how much more mid sounding my cabs are in my small rehearsal space. Since the Acme's don't have a lot going on in the mids to begin with (i.e., not the typical hi bass bump and aggressive upper mid response of most cabs), that is not a good combination.

That being said, for many, the quirks of those cabs are more trouble than they are worth for use as bass guitar backline in loud situations IMO and IME.
 
#84
Ok, as this thread is rescuscitated from a couple years back...

On the one hand, we have Acmes...

and

On the other, we have Schroeders...

Two different design philosophies. One "flat," the other "colored" with a hefty mid bump and rolled off lows.

So, to open up the discussion, which cabinet design philosophy offers the best of both worlds?

More and more I find myself missing the "full-rangeness" of the Acmes, while still enjoying the ability to punch through a mix hear myself without fear of over-taxing the cabinet.

I do like the Schro design, but I'm starting to think that something a little more natural sounding and less inherently aggressive is more "me."

Is it the Epifani concept of the 310UL? Something else? I'm starting to think about going in a new direction that represents a happy medium of Acme & Schroeder - the only question is, what is it?

Lonnybass
 
#85
Lonnybass said:
Ok, as this thread is rescuscitated from a couple years back...

On the one hand, we have Acmes...

and

On the other, we have Schroeders...

Two different design philosophies. One "flat," the other "colored" with a hefty mid bump and rolled off lows.

So, to open up the discussion, which cabinet design philosophy offers the best of both worlds?

More and more I find myself missing the "full-rangeness" of the Acmes, while still enjoying the ability to punch through a mix hear myself without fear of over-taxing the cabinet.

I do like the Schro design, but I'm starting to think that something a little more natural sounding and less inherently aggressive is more "me."

Is it the Epifani concept of the 310UL? Something else? I'm starting to think about going in a new direction that represents a happy medium of Acme & Schroeder - the only question is, what is it?

Lonnybass
Click to expand...

Going from Acme's to Schroeders would be, as you say, going from one massive extreme to another. Almost any other cab would sit in the middle of those two.

The 310UL is nice... much deeper than the Schroe's (in general), more upper treble than the Acme, nice upper mids, a bit of a hole in the 'punch area' down low.

The cab I'm most enamored with at the moment that seems to provide 'real' low end, but not that useless 30hz thing, meaty low mids without a lot of twiddling the knobs, a nice bright but not harsh upper mid presence, and a tweeter powerful enough to push some upper treble through the mix if you want it is the new Bergantino AE212.... 55 Pounds, 4ohms, and 500 watts drives the living bejeebers out of it. Really nice, and much more even than the UL line of cabs.


For a 'B210 volume' type cab with real low end extension, but much higher sensitivity to moderate gigs, the Audiokinesis Thunder Child 112 is cool.... 34 pounds, 4ohm, and based on a proprietary version of the super duper 3012LF driver. I have clips of both cabs on my Youtube channel (link in my sig). Tighter voicing than the Acme, and a more typical top end versus the very organic Acme upper mids and more hi fi upper treble, but killer in its own way. Andy is also coming out with an Acme 112 that sounds like it might be interesting... more mid punch, but not sure if it has that same 'overextension' (IMO) in the low end that can cause problems and frustration for many.
IMO!
 
#87
KJung said:
LDS can build a 15/6 for you that would solve your issues IMO. Not much heavier than the B210... a bit larger of course, but much punchier, and without that need for hi passing and all that stuff. Amazing cabs if you can get a nice 500 or so watts into them at 8ohms. They don't really need any more than that.

I now understand (from the EE's on this site) why the Acme's tend to run into trouble when really pushed.... it seems to be a design flaw with the drivers, which have huge xmax (i.e., they can piston a ton, producing massive deep low end), but if I'm understanding the EE stuff correctly, the xmech to xmax ratio (i.e., how much they can move versus when the movement causes problems) is much too low.

The Eminence LF drivers don't have this issue, and the boxes are tuned deep, but appropriately for full volume, deep performance. The mid drivers are also a universe above that little 5" driver in the Acme (which quickly gets overwhelmed when you crank that cab by the deep low end, resulting in a lock of upper mid articulation, and a perceived lack of volume).

IMO and painful IME.
Click to expand...
The LDS cab sounds like a good option. It would depend on how much I could get for the B2.

Thanks, Wade
 
#88
Wow! I had forgotten I had started this thread! I solved my Acme problems by giving the old drivers AND my B2 to the guy who does my tech work. The B1 was sold to a local guitarist. I really loved my Acmes and hope to one day check out a flatwound or roundwound. But, for now, I'll stick to my Bergs and Whappo.
 
#89
I am so thankful that I found this thread!!! I recently purchased a 4 ohm LOW B 4 (my first 410) used that's in great shape and was a bit confused as to what to do in regards to compression/limiting, EQ and filtering. Alex, you really did an amazing job of explaining what some ACME owners are doing is making things worse! I am seriously considering getting a GK 1001RBII, which Andy told me would work well my cab even though it is a little shy of the recommended 800-1000 watts. I'm wondering if GK amps don't employ compression/limiting for the reasons that Alex expounded on.

It speaks very well of ACME when expert cabinet builders like Alex and Lo Phat's Paul Tidwell are former ACME users!
 
#91
bottomzone said:
I am so thankful that I found this thread!!! I recently purchased a 4 ohm LOW B 4 (my first 410) used that's in great shape and was a bit confused as to what to do in regards to compression/limiting, EQ and filtering. Alex, you really did an amazing job of explaining what some ACME owners are doing is making things worse! I am seriously considering getting a GK 1001RBII, which Andy told me would work well my cab even though it is a little shy of the recommended 800-1000 watts. I'm wondering if GK amps don't employ compression/limiting for the reasons that Alex expounded on.

It speaks very well of ACME when expert cabinet builders like Alex and Lo Phat's Paul Tidwell are former ACME users!
Click to expand...


I have used a GK1001 RBII with a 4ohm ACME B2 for the past 12 years and it sounds excellent. Always get complements from others on the bandstand. My B2 is 15 years old now and the only issue I have ever had is that I have had to replace the auto bulb fuse three times now. I don't play loud or push the speaker very hard. No slapping or excessively bright tone. Anyone else run in to this problem?
 
#93
davideo said:
I have used a GK1001 RBII with a 4ohm ACME B2 for the past 12 years and it sounds excellent. Always get complements from others on the bandstand. My B2 is 15 years old now and the only issue I have ever had is that I have had to replace the auto bulb fuse three times now. I don't play loud or push the speaker very hard. No slapping or excessively bright tone. Anyone else run in to this problem?
Click to expand...

I ran into this a bunch of times myself. Never could quite figure out what was causing it. A HPF is a good solution to the driver over excursion but the bulbs always drove me crazy!
 
#94
I did get a GK 1001RBII and a Wharfdale EQ with a HPF and they are a great combination with the ACME Low B4! The bulb was already blown when I purchased the Low B4, but since I replaced it, I have not had any issues with blowing bulbs and the drivers barely move regardless of what technique I use. This is the best rig that I have ever owned so far!
 
#95
Lonnybass said:
I ran into this a bunch of times myself. Never could quite figure out what was causing it. A HPF is a good solution to the driver over excursion but the bulbs always drove me crazy!
Click to expand...

Replace the lamp with a Polyswitch. It’s a self resetting device to protect high range drivers. Andy is using them now instead of lamps IIRC. You could always just wire the device into the base of the blown lamp and reinstall so no modifications to the crossover would be required. I am certain that Andy would provide the appropriate device at a fair price.

For myself I have only ever had to replace one lamp as I said earlier. I don’t even think about whether or not they will blow.
 
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#97
BassmanPaul said:
Replace the lamp with a Polyswitch. It’s a self resetting device to protect high range drivers. Andy is using them now instead of lamps IIRC. You could always just wire the devise into the base of the blown lamp and reinstall so no modifications to the crossover would be required. I am certain that Andy would provide the appropriate device at a fair price.

For myself I have only ever had to replace one lamp as I said earlier. I don’t even think about whether or not they will blow.
Click to expand...

Man that is a brilliant solution. It would have saved me a ton of trouble way back when.
 
#99
Lonnybass said:
I creased 16 cones during the time I owned my 2 B2s!............

Lonnybass
Click to expand...

You heathen you!!! :D

i haven’t creased even one. I have three woofers in my work room, Two with torn surrounds, tried to play though them before they had warmed up from sub zero temperatures and one I stuck the screwdriver through. ATM I’m doing a big cleanup of my shop and looked at the Acme drivers. I know I should just recycle them but I didn’t have the heart!! They’re ACMES after all. ;)
 

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