Sounds like he's just trying to communicate. Seems like he did a good job getting his point across too. Talk to him, not talkbass.
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What to do with lead singer?
- Thread starter Snakeman1066
- Start date
Singers are just a different bunch, arent they? 
Seriously though, you HAVE exceeded the "one gig per month" quota that was previously agreed to.
His email may have been worded a bit...um, lets say strongly, but he did get a point across and add me to the list of people who think you 2 need to have a talk about it.
Just because it doesnt infringe on YOUR schedule isnt enough to make it right that you're scheduling extra gigs. Even though your drummer doesnt care, clearly your writing partner DOES and you need to respect his feelings.
Tough situation but hopefully its one you can work through.
Good luck!!
Seriously though, you HAVE exceeded the "one gig per month" quota that was previously agreed to.
His email may have been worded a bit...um, lets say strongly, but he did get a point across and add me to the list of people who think you 2 need to have a talk about it.
Just because it doesnt infringe on YOUR schedule isnt enough to make it right that you're scheduling extra gigs. Even though your drummer doesnt care, clearly your writing partner DOES and you need to respect his feelings.
Tough situation but hopefully its one you can work through.
Good luck!!
we argreed to a minumum of one gig per month....he simply heard what he wanted to hear, and this was also during a time that we went from being a four piece to a trio because the other guitard wanted more out of the band than we wanted to give....
again we had already agreed to take down time between Thanksgivng and New Years eve to spend time with family and put the polish on new material....
we all have computers and we all bought the same recording software so that we can record tracks and pass them back and forth to one another....and then he simply mixes and masters..and if eed be we record fills or overdubs
again we are new to our market and i'm simply trying to get us out there otherwise this hiatus from gigging will kill any momentum we may have generated
again i don't see the point in doing all this work if we are simply going to stand around in our studio and stare at each other....
music is meant to be heard and experienced along with the sweat, the beer, and the other stuff....
i don't see the problem myself....with 5 to 6 gigs in 4 months time
currently or gig schedule for the whole year (as we only formed at the beginning of the year)
July 18th
August 29th
September 5th
September 26th
October 3rd
October 17th
November 7th (possibly as this one seems to be the show that broke the camels back) and i have not conformed it as of yet...
and on top of that they are one hour showcases.....we play an hour set grab our portion of the door and split or sit around and drink and watch the other bands
again we struck a cord with a national act that heard one of our songs, liked it and picked us to open for them....i was only trying to ride that wave and get us out there...
am I just too hard headed?
again i don't see the reason to make such a fuss
again we had already agreed to take down time between Thanksgivng and New Years eve to spend time with family and put the polish on new material....
we all have computers and we all bought the same recording software so that we can record tracks and pass them back and forth to one another....and then he simply mixes and masters..and if eed be we record fills or overdubs
again we are new to our market and i'm simply trying to get us out there otherwise this hiatus from gigging will kill any momentum we may have generated
again i don't see the point in doing all this work if we are simply going to stand around in our studio and stare at each other....
music is meant to be heard and experienced along with the sweat, the beer, and the other stuff....
i don't see the problem myself....with 5 to 6 gigs in 4 months time
currently or gig schedule for the whole year (as we only formed at the beginning of the year)
July 18th
August 29th
September 5th
September 26th
October 3rd
October 17th
November 7th (possibly as this one seems to be the show that broke the camels back) and i have not conformed it as of yet...
and on top of that they are one hour showcases.....we play an hour set grab our portion of the door and split or sit around and drink and watch the other bands
again we struck a cord with a national act that heard one of our songs, liked it and picked us to open for them....i was only trying to ride that wave and get us out there...
am I just too hard headed?
again i don't see the reason to make such a fuss
Talk to him, face to face, not through emails. Emails without body language tend to come across wrong.
If he's really set on one gig a month, you'll have to respect that. Maybe he would agree to these booked gigs if you agree to just one gig a month after they're done? Something to suggest...
If you get along well, write well together, its worth compromising to stay together.
Randy
If he's really set on one gig a month, you'll have to respect that. Maybe he would agree to these booked gigs if you agree to just one gig a month after they're done? Something to suggest...
If you get along well, write well together, its worth compromising to stay together.
Randy
I don't think you are being hard-headed. I do think you are doing a great job of booking the band.
You guys gotta talk & sort out the "gig frequency" issue (as well as formulate the plan he discusses). He has an upper limit in mind, but likely has some wiggle room for surprise situations.
You guys gotta talk & sort out the "gig frequency" issue (as well as formulate the plan he discusses). He has an upper limit in mind, but likely has some wiggle room for surprise situations.
I thought I was the only one catching this, just about everyone else seems to be overlooking it. It sounds like this he just wants to write and create more.
I guess that would depend on what you're trying to accomplish. Again, I am not getting that "he doesn't want to rehearse" from the limited info you've given us here- as much as I am seeing that he wants to write more. My guess is if there was more of balance, he'd be ok with playing the stuff you guys wrote.
I think he may be right, it sound maybe like you guys do need a plan. I know some bands that gig regularly and do ZERO originals. The get booked to go into small local bars, have a few beers, and play in front of a live audience- and put a little money in their pockets.
On the other hand, I know bands that try to squeak a few originals in between their covers to get the best of both worlds- a crowd that gets to here mostly party tunes, and get the crowds reaction to their originals.
It all depends on what you guys are trying to do. But by no means am I getting the vibe from this guy is (or is on the verge of becoming) impossible to work with. I think you might be just taking it a bit personally and just have to take a step back.
He sounds a little artsy and like a little bit of drama queen- though a lot of singers and lead guitarist are. But I am not seeing anything offensive or terribly unreasonable here.
Adopt the traditional bass player mentality- be the calm, laid back guy, who checks his ego at the door and keeps the band together.
My comment is way to one sided. I am slowly learning that everybody does not think like me.
I guess if he doesn't want to gig more than once a month and that's what the agreement was.You need to talk to him, there might be some kind of compromise.
Honestly it's hard to tell but I'm leaning to yes...
What you're saying seems reasonable to me. However, I'm not in your band nor have I been in any of the band's previous discussions. He seems to have a problem with something and you don't seem to want to bend...
************************************************************************************************
whats this about another gig? - Please stop. -
we need to focus on a plan. It's changing from "fun" to work. Don't get me wrong, I like to gig. I want to gig.
You are pulling in a direction I don't want to go.
I love writing, recording and playing music. I enjoy gigging, but there is balance to be had.
We rehearse 1 day a week.
On weekends we gig: we don't rehearse. we don't write new stuff, we don't record.
I feel like we are getting out of balance.
************************************************************************************************
The above is from the earlier e-mail.
THIS dude needs to decide what it is he wants to do. He seems to want to play in a garage band and write originals, with no gigging. You want to gig.He says he likes to gig, but yet he bitches about gigging. Basically he wants to have his cake and eat it too.
WORK IT OUT
To me as lots have said you need to establish your goals? Are you playing for fun or to "make it". You need to make sure your on the same page and then communicate. I am into playing these days for fun, once a month sometimes two. I usually book gigs. I have the band members give me dates that are good and book according to them. If something is out of the norm/agreement, I also make sure I check with them. 3 of 5 of us are married the two single guys would love to play every weekend. The drummer does a lot of subbing to keep busy and it all works. It sounds to me like you guys are in different places. Your writing which is great and want to "take advantage of it", is that to get signed?
I agree with suggestion of going out for a couple of beers and chatting. I had to slow our band down some but now we are all getting our needs met. We have been gigging happily once to twice a month. Its about communication and compromising IMHO.
I agree with suggestion of going out for a couple of beers and chatting. I had to slow our band down some but now we are all getting our needs met. We have been gigging happily once to twice a month. Its about communication and compromising IMHO.
Your singer made it pretty clear that he doesn't care about gigging at all. He said so, that he "plays for the band, period." Sounds like he would be happy never gigging. Sure, he says he wants to gig, but that doesn't come through in his reasoning. It seems as though he says that because he knows you want to hear it.
If that's what he wants, fine. Personally, I would never be in a band that did not gig, or only gigged infrequently. I'm with Blue, it's all about the gig.
Reminds me of ads I see for guys running jam bands in their basement, looking for bassists. "No pressure, we're just here for each other and the fun of playing!!!"
<yawn>
I wonder what the attraction is... really.
You will have to act according to what you want. Sounds like you're running the show... if so, and the AGREEMENT was 1 gig/month MINIMUM (I think some of you guys are missing the "minimum" part), you're still within the agreement. 5 gigs in 3 months is only 1.6/month. Hardly going overboard.
I would be complaining that there were ONLY 5!
The answer to the "please stop" could be, "I did stop, I'm not booking any more shows until the first of the year." You're still well within reason. I would NOT cancel any of the bookings! I don't think you want to do that, especially if you're riding a crest... imagine your fans' reactions... "Why did they cancel???" "Because our singer doesn't want to gig." How lame is that???
Good luck! Keep us posted.
If that's what he wants, fine. Personally, I would never be in a band that did not gig, or only gigged infrequently. I'm with Blue, it's all about the gig.
Reminds me of ads I see for guys running jam bands in their basement, looking for bassists. "No pressure, we're just here for each other and the fun of playing!!!"
<yawn>
I wonder what the attraction is... really.
You will have to act according to what you want. Sounds like you're running the show... if so, and the AGREEMENT was 1 gig/month MINIMUM (I think some of you guys are missing the "minimum" part), you're still within the agreement. 5 gigs in 3 months is only 1.6/month. Hardly going overboard.
I would be complaining that there were ONLY 5!
The answer to the "please stop" could be, "I did stop, I'm not booking any more shows until the first of the year." You're still well within reason. I would NOT cancel any of the bookings! I don't think you want to do that, especially if you're riding a crest... imagine your fans' reactions... "Why did they cancel???" "Because our singer doesn't want to gig." How lame is that???
Good luck! Keep us posted.
It's not that I missed the '1/month minimum', but from that I inferred a range of frequency. I think Singer is 'predicting from the curve' & is worried OP will book with increasing frequency, & is trying to get everyone re-aligned.
I don't think it's my place to tell their Singer how often he should gig.
I don't think any grouping of people will all naturally want to gig with the very same frequency, nor will they naturally completely agree to ANY band-related question. Discussion, compromise . . . TEAMWORK.
OP, I'd suggest a band meeting. Everyone discusses their concerns, issues, & desires. Your wishes to 'strike while the iron is hot' are very valid & very good business. Singer might be comfortable with a temporary accelerated gigging schedule; dunno.
I don't think it's my place to tell their Singer how often he should gig.
I don't think any grouping of people will all naturally want to gig with the very same frequency, nor will they naturally completely agree to ANY band-related question. Discussion, compromise . . . TEAMWORK.
OP, I'd suggest a band meeting. Everyone discusses their concerns, issues, & desires. Your wishes to 'strike while the iron is hot' are very valid & very good business. Singer might be comfortable with a temporary accelerated gigging schedule; dunno.
I would say this exactly how not to deal with it. Digging your heels in and saying "THIS IS HOW WE ARE DOING THINGS" is only going to alienate people, possibly see you lose your song writing partner or at best sour your relationship with your band.
Are you being hard headed? I'd say yes. You are still explaining to us (and seemingly not the person you really need to be talking to) repeatedly your reasons for wanting to do the gigs. I'm sure everyone understands them, however your singer may well have equally good reasons to want to record or not do the gigs. You wouldn't know as you are griping to talkbass rather than discussing it with the singer.
I get the impression that Snakeman is the bandleader, and has the final say. If so, he has a decision to make, not sit around playing patty-cake with his band. That's why he's here, to get feedback on a tough decision. My opinion is as valid as yours.
If not, and it's one of those go-nowhere total democratic commitee deals, then they're probably headed for system failure due to fatal-quagmire-syndrome. Wouldn't wish that on 'em.
Good luck Snakeman, let us know what goes down...
No, that's LEADERSHIP. It does not automatically alienate... people will get behind a good leader. [SIZE="-2"](Notice I said "good" leader.)[/SIZE]
A good leader isn't always right, nor does he always know whats best. The point is, if anyone in my band went overboard with booking (I don't think the OP is) without regard to how the rest of the band felt, that person would be playing the shows solo.
There's a difference between being a good leader and a good band member. The OP has suggested that he will take care of the bookings (good job, btw), and the singer would handle the "technical" stuff. Unfortunately, he feels that this schedule is too heavy, and if he decides to quit the band because snakeman dug in his heels, they would be without a singer and not able to do any of the shows booked. How is that not a momentum killer?
There's a difference between being a good leader and a good band member. The OP has suggested that he will take care of the bookings (good job, btw), and the singer would handle the "technical" stuff. Unfortunately, he feels that this schedule is too heavy, and if he decides to quit the band because snakeman dug in his heels, they would be without a singer and not able to do any of the shows booked. How is that not a momentum killer?
+1
It can't be that difficult to stay "stage worthy," gig the existing material, and get some new writing/recording done on the side. I don't get the "either/or" stance.
Since you are obviously capable of both, find another singer and let "Paul" become a pure studio artist if he so desires. That lets you and the band gig (as you should) and you can keep your working relationship with "Paul." Sticking to a strict once-a-month gig and never deviating without getting a lecture from your singer would be depressing to me.
You are correct, music is made to be listened to.
So is advice, when you ask for it.
Seems like you are having a hard time listening. Both to advice, and the agreement you made with your singer.
Reading your response without vocal inflection, it looks like you are arguing with the very people you are asking advice of. Bad form.
Either man up, get a grip on the OCD, and treat the band life is a marriage.
Or be the OCD madman, ruin your reputation, have your band divorce you, and live the rest of your life as a series of musical cheap thrills, but nothing meaningful and lasting.
Your call.
Twenty yrs ago I made my decision. That's why I drive a truck across this country, instead touring it.
Again, your call. But I know what I would do, given th chance to do it all over again. If there is musical magic between you two, then control your OCD butt and enjoy it.
Yeah but a good leader actually listens to people's reasoning behind things. I don't think the OP has.
People do respect a good band leader, but they also, in my experience (and if they have any talent), walk away from a band dictator.
No it isn't. That's terrible leadership.
People will get behind a good leader, and trust them even at times when they fully don't understand the reasons or rationale because they believe in them... What you've been saying however isn't leadership, it's dictatorship and a mistake to lead that way IMO. Especially when OP seems to really like him and they work well together. If the singer were a jerk and and contributed nothing to the band it would be a different story...
