Playing well and retaining the audience has a way of coming back to bite you on the ass.
If you get offered gigs, take 'em when you can. There's always a slightly less talented band that can take them from you.
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What to do with lead singer?
- Thread starter Snakeman1066
- Start date
If you get offered gigs, take 'em when you can. There's always a slightly less talented band that can take them from you.
Self-assessment time: you guys have at least one good song. How's the rest of your set compare? What was the crowd response like at those two gigs? If it was generally good, just trim the fat out and play shorter sets. If more than half your set fell flat, then yeah, maybe you need some new material.
c-
Well, from my own point of view I also think the singer has foolishly-low expectations & goals of gig frequency: 1 a month might be fine for low-level bar cover band but for an Originals group that's starting to make some real headway? But I also don't think it's up to me to decide how often is too often for him. I don't know his situation: over-bearing spouse? Terminal stage fright?
From the tone of the singer's message, I'd say he wants to discuss the situation & might even be elated at the opportunity to just write with OP.
You have two conflicting situations going on here. You've certainly read about signed acts saying, " we aren't touring for a year or two so we can concentrate on some music. "Gigging and rehearsing to gig" ,are not the same as "working on original music with an intent to create good-better original music". I know, you feel you are working in a vacuum, not getting out and playing. He(might actually want to do yard work, be afraid of progressing) may feel he is working against people who need the immediate gratification of a gig, rather than finessing the fine points of their original music. Maybe you guys need to draw up a NEW plan - 4 months in the woodshed, 4 months of twice a month gigs, if possible, to get feedback from people on what you created? And if you guys all have families - just take Thanksgiving to January 1st out of the freakin loop for all practical purposes. You can try to squeeze some time in, but being realistic is better than being stressed or pi$$ed off.
He might have been thinking 1 gig a month, and suddenly you're at 50% more and the project is accellerating, he's worried what's coming next, and giving you a heads up.
If that's the case, he's being honest and proactive, and that's a good thing.
See what he's willing to do as a max. Is that enough to support the endorsements? Great. If not, you need someone new or a sub to fill in.
If your goal is to take this to the next level, though, sounds like he is definitely NOT going to be on board. Maybe he can collaborate on songs and have someone else perform. Ala Elton John and Bernie Taupin. Or you may have to find someone else altogether.
Randy
If that's the case, he's being honest and proactive, and that's a good thing.
See what he's willing to do as a max. Is that enough to support the endorsements? Great. If not, you need someone new or a sub to fill in.
If your goal is to take this to the next level, though, sounds like he is definitely NOT going to be on board. Maybe he can collaborate on songs and have someone else perform. Ala Elton John and Bernie Taupin. Or you may have to find someone else altogether.
Randy
One thing I learned the hard way is that email is not the best way to communicate possibly contentious information in a band situation. Things that could be worked out amicably sitting at a table face to face have a way of blowing up in an email thread.
I wish our new band had a name, so we could then try to get gigs! Starting something new is tough. Seems like your problems could be worked out with reasonable compromise
Cool. Sounding a bit more level headed here bud (maybe I like you more because your influences are so awesome!!!). Just remember it is hard to find a new singer, harder to find a good one and very difficult indeed to find a great singer who is a good song writing partner.
A lot will come down to how much you rate him as a vocalist, a lot will come down to how democratic a leader you are. Good luck in your choice and good luck for the future.
I think the guy is acting like a wuss and I would drop out of this situation in a heartbeat if I got either if those emails. For everyone that called the OP for booking an average of .5 gigs more than he said he would a month span; I disagree. The guy sounds like a prima donna.
Snake,
Have you and I ever been in a band together before? You seem really familiar. . .
Yep, you're definitely that guy. I'd know you anywhere. The guy who has to be in control, who freaks when somebody questions your judgement, the guy who knows what's right for everybody, no matter what they say. Yep, you're that guy.
You said it yourself--you made an agreement about how often you would gig, and then you broke that agreement. You're causing problems for the other guy. What part of that don't you understand?
If you're not satisfied with the way your partnership with the guy is going, find another band for yourself that wants to gig. There's ALWAYS another band out there.
Ed
Have you and I ever been in a band together before? You seem really familiar. . .
Yep, you're definitely that guy. I'd know you anywhere. The guy who has to be in control, who freaks when somebody questions your judgement, the guy who knows what's right for everybody, no matter what they say. Yep, you're that guy.
You said it yourself--you made an agreement about how often you would gig, and then you broke that agreement. You're causing problems for the other guy. What part of that don't you understand?
If you're not satisfied with the way your partnership with the guy is going, find another band for yourself that wants to gig. There's ALWAYS another band out there.
Ed
What's with all the "no gigs, on band" comments. I remember a little known band once that gigged early on, but then stopped to focus their creative energies solely on creating good music, oh yeah, it was the Beatles.
Seriously though, it's not a "no gigs" situation, and can't be judged as such. There was an agreement on what level the band would play at, one member is pushing beyond that and rewriting the band agreement in the process. I assume the OP is the bassist, and if his goal to earn and play is beyond the goals of the other members, he should find a new band, not the other way around.
Seriously though, it's not a "no gigs" situation, and can't be judged as such. There was an agreement on what level the band would play at, one member is pushing beyond that and rewriting the band agreement in the process. I assume the OP is the bassist, and if his goal to earn and play is beyond the goals of the other members, he should find a new band, not the other way around.
No, the singer is not the only decision maker at this point...
How 'bout not scheduling any more gigs in '09 unless you are given a request/go-ahead from your co-writer? Could you two co-writers with the agreement of the band 'write' a new definition of 'how many gigs' to schedule? Example: "maximum of one gig on schedule in any given calendar month to be approved by bandmembers Joe, Ralph, AND John before commitment is given for a booking." Then, email the agreement to everyone following edits and approvals.
Are there clearcut agreements about the direction of the band-other than 1 gig per month, and other schedule particulars you've mentioned? Consider suggesting a twice per year (face-to-face sitdown, without practice) social gathering for the purpose of discussing the direction of the band, number of gigs per year, mix of covers vs. originals, local vs. out-of-town gigs, and hope that the drummer does more than sit and watch.
How 'bout not scheduling any more gigs in '09 unless you are given a request/go-ahead from your co-writer? Could you two co-writers with the agreement of the band 'write' a new definition of 'how many gigs' to schedule? Example: "maximum of one gig on schedule in any given calendar month to be approved by bandmembers Joe, Ralph, AND John before commitment is given for a booking." Then, email the agreement to everyone following edits and approvals.
Are there clearcut agreements about the direction of the band-other than 1 gig per month, and other schedule particulars you've mentioned? Consider suggesting a twice per year (face-to-face sitdown, without practice) social gathering for the purpose of discussing the direction of the band, number of gigs per year, mix of covers vs. originals, local vs. out-of-town gigs, and hope that the drummer does more than sit and watch.
It's pretty clear that the guitar player/singer want to write songs and play/record in the studio. IMO, the "1 gig per month" is more than he wants to do because of his family and day job.
Gigging and become known is not the way he wants want to spend his time, even if your songs have been well received.
Here's a thought: Maybe your song writing partner can be just that and only that.
Then, maybe you can get your other guitar player back, add another guitar player/singer and create a gigging band to play your originals.
im not even going to read the rest of the thread.
ask every member what they think. (none of this leader ********) and if the majority votes to do gigs instead of being a poon, and he still whines, fire him, start singin or replace him.
ask every member what they think. (none of this leader ********) and if the majority votes to do gigs instead of being a poon, and he still whines, fire him, start singin or replace him.
Love of playing music.
Me, I enjoy playing music. I like it with an audience, I like it with just my band, I like it when I'm by myself. I just enjoy playing.
Now, I'd prefer to gig 3-4 times a month if possible... but that doesn't mean I'm not attracted to all forms of playing music.
Yeah, I'm with you there. I guess I feel like the guys who only want to play in the basement (the point of my confusion), with no intention of gigging, are missing something. Practice, rehearsal, playing alone, rehearsing with the band... that's all fun but mainly (for me) because it's in preparation for gigging....
Kind of like cooking... you decide on a dish, buy the groceries, prepare everything... all "fun" for those who love to cook... then... don't eat it? I would not like that arrangement!
At least in my view.
But hey, it's okay if we see it differently, rock on Aborgman!!
Yeah, I'm with you there. I guess I feel like the guys who only want to play in the basement (the point of my confusion), with no intention of gigging, are missing something. Practice, rehearsal, playing alone, rehearsing with the band... that's all fun but mainly (for me) because it's in preparation for gigging....
Kind of like cooking... you decide on a dish, buy the groceries, prepare everything... all "fun" for those who love to cook... then... don't eat it? I would not like that arrangement!
At least in my view.
But hey, it's okay if we see it differently, rock on Aborgman!!
Nah - I agree with you. I enjoy all forms of playing, but I want to gig. It's fun to do all that stuff without preparing for a gig, but it's more fun IMO to do it for a gig.
...but then, what is a gig? To some people playing for 10 people at a backyard BBQ is a gig...
...and then I know songwriters who have no desire to do anything but write - they write and record everything, but their stuff never gets played by a band, and never gets gigged.
Heck - I know people who like to cook so much they'll cook dishes for parties/gatherings that they themselves dislike, just because everyone else likes it. My mom likes fishing, doesn't mind cleaning or cooking fish... but she won't eat it.
It's all about what floats your boat.
