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What would you do? (Ethical question)

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#281
What a great thread... an ethical question.

I was at a bar once and paid with a ten dollar bill. The bartender gave me change for a twenty. So, in essence, I was getting paid to drink. I told him he gave me the wrong change. He was shocked at my honesty and thanked me profusely. When I went back for a second drink he came to me first, let the other people at the bar wait. How is this relevant, you may ask? Hmmmm, good question. Anyway, I love this thread.
 
#283
Jazz Ad said:
I can't think of a single valid reason to send it back. It's not like MF is a paragoon of morality in the first place or is going to miss the money.
Hell, if your conscience prevents you from keeping it as a backup, give it away to somebody who really needs an amp. I'd probably do that.
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If your ethics are predicated on others you have a problem.
 
#284
coyote1 said:
I'm not asking how you'd cut people slack. I'm asking your opinion on real-world scenarios in which the ethics IMO are not as cut-and-dried as you portrayed them earlier.

Let's return to the car dealer example. You said "Since when do new car dealers host acutions?" When the Dodge Viper first came out, it carried a particular sticker price. But demand for the car was so strong that dealers were, within days, selling the cars for upwards of 20% ABOVE the sticker price! In other words they were, despite the sticker that spelled out a price, merely rolling with the concept of supply and demand.

So let's return to the 'typo' example. A typo is hitting the wrong key by mistake, it is "fat-fingering". It is typing 'yune' when you meant to type 'tune'. It is NOT incorrectly remembering/entering the price you wished to set on an item. Yet merchants do it all the time. You walk into the store for the amazing deal you saw on a bass there just yesterday, only to find the price just shot up. It has happened to me. I own a Marshall Major amp. A local store had one for $900 in good condition, and I figured it would be great to have two of 'em. I came back the next day with cash to buy it, only to find the store had decided it was a "collector's item" and would only sell it to me for four thousand dollars. Even though they'd not even changed the price tag yet!

I agree with you that the OP ought return the amp, and stated so earlier in the thread. But I'm interested in these ethical dilemmas, as they are not as absolute as many folks portray them.
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There's nothing wrong with sellers adjusting prices to reflect market conditions. Bait-and-switch kind of tactics seem to cross the line IMO but its not clear that this is what happens here.

And with the auto industry hasn't the sticker price always been a fiction?
 
#285
you buy one amp and get another for free?
If it was from an individual or small company, yes, I would send it back but c'mon...
Im sure there are many people here that would love a free amp, find someone that needs an amp and send it to them if you want to do something nice. otherwise just keep it as a spare or sell it.
 
#286
chadds said:
So it's now your job to steal from this company to discipline them into equitable pay and healthy working conditions?

The thing is, off topic, Apple ordered the audit. We'll see if they do the right thing.

Write them and tell them you're stealing from them until they shape up. Also tell them you won't actually enjoy using their product so they feel real bad and reform.

You have to deal with your own feelings about being the underdog. Corporations aren't necessarily good or bad. I've employed people with these victim attitudes and they have to be encouraged to do the least they can do. They don't take ownership and don't realize that the better job they do the better the company does and the better their pay and the better the reputation of the company and the product and they get paid better and have job security.

The CEO or owner takes way more responsibility than their employees. They put up the money or are in debt and unlike their employees, show up in the middle of the night or holidays to deal with emergencies. They think about every single employee, the product or service, and often how to keep their employees on the payroll in slow times. Some of these company owners are not Rockefeller but are regular Joes who just wanted to make a better bass amp or bicycle for all to enjoy. If they employ six people that's cool? If they employ six thousand they are now evil?:)
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Guess I shoulda put a " ;-) " after that..it was comedy.
 
#289
Call them up, and tell them what happened. Be honest. What are you going to do with 2 anyway?

MF may be so stunned by your honesty, that they’ll hook you up somehow/somewhere. Not that this is the reason for you being honest, but do what’s right and let the chips fall where they may.
 
#290
Hey, maybe I'll get two basses this week!! Actually I would be happy if the one I ordered arrives fine and dandy.

Doing the right thing is not always the easist thing, but is what separates us from other species. (most of the time)..
I always like to think that what comes around, goes around and while my general distaste for MF is validated based on their continued retail malfeasance should you keep it, I would return it because you're not them!

And returning it proves that.

And yes, it sucks. That said, I would angle for something as a concession for your good will, of course.

That and a month down the road when they fix their books and find the accidental dupe, they'll charge you.

And they will.

So, adopt a shelter dog, help the downtrodden, and return that amp.

DB
 
#293
Besides doing what is right - The extra head is on the books somewhere. There is a very good chance that you will eventually be asked to pay for it - so buy it or return it. Have then send a call tag where the driver picks it up so you don't have to do anything.
 
#294
Toastfuzz said:
Yep. Look at the country we live in, we're all at the very bottom of the totem pole. Along with those employees of MF. Keeping this amp doesn't take meals off their table. Working for a company that regularly sends wrong/duplicate shipments does.
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shouldn't you occupiers be in some stinky tent right now?

America has the richest poor people in the world, and that's no fairy tale. The problem with moral relativism is that you lose sight of the fact that the laws in our society are morality based, an agreed upon morality that you don't seem to agree with. Most people that work hard really aren't fond of thieves, that's why there are no tears shed when the thieves go to jail.
 
#296
Calaverasgrande said:
I dont understand all the rationale about "putting yourself in their shoes" etc.
MF is a corporation. Not a person.
Corporations are not people and do not deserve sympathy nor do they have any for you.
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The ethics of the situation completely aside, MF is a corporation that employs people. People whose livelihood depends on MF making money. If MF loses money some of those people may be hit financially - either through salary reductions/loss of raises or loss of jobs. If MF is a publicly traded company investors, which include lots of regular people may be hit either with a reduction in dividends or a reduced share price. Or other MF customers may be asked to make up the loss by paying higher prices.

You are naive to think that when you wrong a corporation that your actions don't have real life consequences for real live people.
 
#297
PSYCHOTIC said:
you buy one amp and get another for free?
If it was from an individual or small company, yes, I would send it back but c'mon...
Im sure there are many people here that would love a free amp, find someone that needs an amp and send it to them if you want to do something nice. otherwise just keep it as a spare or sell it.
Click to expand...

Calaverasgrande said:
I dont understand all the rationale about "putting yourself in their shoes" etc.
MF is a corporation. Not a person.
Corporations are not people and do not deserve sympathy nor do they have any for you.
Click to expand...

So it's OK to STEAL from some people as long as you rationalize it? :confused:

Pretty pathetic, and a little scary. Of course one thing it is NOT is surprising. The penal institutions are chock full of like minded individuals, and every one of them is innocent; just ask them. ;)
Luckily there are still a lot of people who have integrity, as the majority of the posts on this thread would indicate.



For those that are still trying to advise the OP as to how to handle the "dilemma", THIS was posted five days and many pages ago by the OP;

Schpector said:
Honestly, I'm probably going to do something that hasn't been mentioned. I won't have to sacrifice driving all the way to UPS, shipping costs, etc. And MF will get their money.

I'm going to just tell them to bill me for it. It's a great head and I love it. What's wrong with having a backup?

Also, I can leave one at rehearsal and keep one at home for quiet, headphones practice.
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#298
smcgov said:
shouldn't you occupiers be in some stinky tent right now?

America has the richest poor people in the world, and that's no fairy tale. The problem with moral relativism is that you lose sight of the fact that the laws in our society are morality based, an agreed upon morality that you don't seem to agree with. Most people that work hard really aren't fond of thieves, that's why there are no tears shed when the thieves go to jail.
Click to expand...

I'm pumped I could forget about this thread for 4 days and come back to find I'm still being quoted out of context ;)

I'm actually on the 12th floor of a 30+ story building that overlooks the old Occupy camp, they haven't been here for a few months though.

I'd love to keep proposing hypothetical situations and whatnot, but I have to get back to my 50 hour a week job to pay for the $350 parking ticket I got the other day. Technically I was parked in an illegal spot, so I guess I committed a crime and have to pay the piper. I sure would love to legally claim a mistakenly shipped Ampeg right now.
 
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