What would you do? (Ethical question)

[Renaissance]

Hey Jeff!
Doing great, not playing alot but...

In light of this thread, maybe I could've had a free cab!

 

[eyeballkid]

I'm surprised at a lot of the responses on here, I can see where The Occupy movement gets some of their ideas. If someone or some Company, like them or not, sends you something in error, it's not yours! It's a mistake, do the right thing and return it.......you would be angry if the shoe was on the other foot.

Im one that would vote send it back...and I support Occupy...and the morality of collective and individual responsibility is why.....and I can see how alot of those who dont support Occupy get misinformation about their goals.

 

[jcpeters]

return it. their mistake or not, it's the ethical thing to do and that was your original question...
"what would you do? (ethical question)"

flip it around and ask yourself these questions...
1. what would I tell someone else to do in the same situation?
2. what would I say if I knew my answer was going to be/set a model of behavior for that person in the future?
3. what if that other person was my kid?

if you decide to keep it... good luck.
just remember... you can never again complain how others are just looking out for themselves and don't care if you get screwed over or not.

 

[phatbass]

I'd send 'em an email saying "here it is; come 'n' get it". I wouldn't feel under any obligation to go out of my way to pack and send it.

 

[Renaissance]

flip it around and ask yourself these questions...
1. what would I tell someone else to do in the same situation?
2. what would I say if I knew my answer was going to be/set a model of behavior for that person in the future?
3. what if that other person was my kid?

I like your way of thinking. I've been fortunate to have had positive role models in my life - starting with my parents. My criteria has always been, how would I explain my actions to my children?

Sorry for the tangent. Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

 

[CrashMiller]

Well, I don't believe in Karma in a super-natural sense. However, I believe that being kind to others may inspire them to do the same.

My advise would be return it, and feel good thinking you may have inspired someone to help someone else. I don't think anyone would complain about a more altruistic society.

 

[coyote1]

You are, if you are that bad at proofreading your own ad.

Ok. What then if a car dealer lists a hot new set of wheels at $40K, but buyers are clamoring for it and willing to outbid each other? Is the dealer unethical if, when you show up at the door with check in hand, he says "Due to demand, the price has risen to $55 thousand"??

Hope you don't mind my pressing a bit here... you made a moral pronouncement on many of your fellow talkbass forumites, one that flies in the face of many hallowed free-market principles. I'm just wondering how you reconcile that, and so I'm tossing out some real world examples I have encountered for your consideration.

 

[babebambi]

Let's look at a couple scenarios

a) shipping mistake
You ordered 1 iPad, Apple charged you for 1, then shipped 2 to you.
You kept quiet

b) shipping mistake
You ordered a 16 gb iPad, Apple charged you for 16 gb, shipped you a 64
You kept quiet

c) billing mistake
You ordered a 64 gb , were charged for 16 gb, shipped a 64 gb
You kept quiet

d) pricing mistake
The new iPad sell for $699 in store,
But when the online store is accessed in a certain sequence,
the ordering system can be tricked, and that product can be ordered for only $6.99
So you ordered, charged $6.99, shipped what's ordered.

e)pricing mistake
You visit apple online store normally
See that $699 iPad now listed for $6.99
So you ordered, charged $6.99, shipped what's ordered.


Are these so different after all?
These can all be caused by an error in a key stroke.
If you think these are different, which is the worst offender?

With "d" and "e" , how many would notify Apple of the error, instead of tipping out your friends?

 

[eyeballkid]

In this scenario are we to consider current apple labor conditions and worker "pay" as a factor?

 

[svtb15]

As much as i would love to keep it.. I wouldn't.. Karma man....
Call them.. let them know about it .. and have them send a call tag.... Its the right thing to do.

 

[David Jayne]

Ok. What then if a car dealer lists a hot new set of wheels at $40K, but buyers are clamoring for it and willing to outbid each other? Is the dealer unethical if, when you show up at the door with check in hand, he says "Due to demand, the price has risen to $55 thousand"??

Hope you don't mind my pressing a bit here... you made a moral pronouncement on many of your fellow talkbass forumites, one that flies in the face of many hallowed free-market principles. I'm just wondering how you reconcile that, and so I'm tossing out some real world examples I have encountered for your consideration.

Since when do new car dealers host auctions?

Sure, new car prices CAN rise with demand. But unless you've left a deposit on a car, with contract in hand, or at LEAST have a verbal agreement, when you show up the dealer can ask for whatever he wants.
I really don't see what you're driving at. .. : D

 

[pbassnut]

No brainer ... return the extra PF-500 to Musician's Friend.

 

[David Jayne]

Question: if you list a bass for $300 when you meant $500,
and it is not a typo but your error,
And someone calls you and says "I'll take it"...

Who is the dishonest person in the transaction if you refuse to sell to him for that price??

I've thought some more about this, and I'll have to ask you to clarify the 'error.' If it isn't a typo, what is it?
If it WAS a typo, and someone called and said "Yeah, I'll take it. How shall I send your $300.00?", well, as long as they haven't actually already sent the money, I'd let the seller off the hook. We're not Ebay here.

 

[Primakurtz]

Why did this thread go past one page?
Ethics is about choosing to do the right thing, regardless of the other party's virtues or flaws.
Crooks generally justify their crimes by blaming their victims.
No political party/perspective has a monopoly on good ethics, and it is pretty disingenuous to bring politics into this.

 

[gregbackstrom]

I wouldn't send it back. MF is a big organization that his made its money so many times over. Why?? I used to work a corporate job, and we used to give away so many freebies and periodically spend ridiculous $$ on dinners that consisted mostly of booze.
Executives waste even more money than I did, but consumers choose to keep giving it up.
Enjoy the bonus dude! Look at it as MF giving back to you!!

MF has made its money "many times over?!" how do YOU know that? Who the he// are you?

Embarrassing to the poster, and wrong on so many levels! As the CFO of a married couple of very hard-working auto dealers (and Corporate Executives) who have risked a TON to keep 500 people employed, I get so tired of hearing about Evil Corporations.

Guys - corporations are PEOPLE, and these people risk their lives and their futures to follow a dream that makes a lot of our lives better. If I f*** up, I walk away from my job with no real loss. Yeah - I gotta find another employer, but once I do, my cash flow is back to normal. If the "shareholder" goes down, it can ruin him or her permanently. And a lot of other folks too. They're under amazing pressure, trust me!

As for Musician's Friend and Guitar Center, these stores are much better than many give them credit for. I traveled the country playing music in the 70's and 80's, and there were VERY few places that had any decent bass gear. If you broke a string, you'd be lucky to find a set of RotoSound standard gauge. Today, the most mediocre GC has a wealth of usable bass gear that any of us could rely on to get through the gig and more! And there are LOTS of GC's. These guys hire musicians too. True, most of them are too young and inexperienced to help me much, but many of them still try. Musician's Friend is the online equivalent. Amazing gear at amazingly low prices, and a generous return policy too! What a great time to be a bass player!

So someone screwed up! Not the Evil Corporate Shareholder -- just one of the dumb musicians they employ to try to keep the business going. Give them all a break and do the right thing.

 

[slawie]

I'm surprised at a lot of the responses on here, I can see where The Occupy movement gets some of their ideas. If someone or some Company, like them or not, sends you something in error, it's not yours! It's a mistake, do the right thing and return it.......you would be angry if the shoe was on the other foot.

If you walk a mile in their shoes - you will be one mile away and you'll have their shoes.

slawie

 

[Jeff Scott]

Hey Jeff!
Doing great, not playing alot but...

In light of this thread, maybe I could've had a free cab!

The good doctor? After all his shenanigans I ended up with a free cabinet that I sold to another TBer pretty cheap so he wouldn't have to deal with Marc. The one you freed for me was really nice but in the end I did not want anything made by Marc. So I ended up selling all three different cabs I got from him. Now I have two very nice Don Oatman built cabinets that serve me very well depending on how big I have to go.

 

[chadds]

In this scenario are we to consider current apple labor conditions and worker "pay" as a factor?

So it's now your job to steal from this company to discipline them into equitable pay and healthy working conditions?

The thing is, off topic, Apple ordered the audit. We'll see if they do the right thing.

Write them and tell them you're stealing from them until they shape up. Also tell them you won't actually enjoy using their product so they feel real bad and reform.

You have to deal with your own feelings about being the underdog. Corporations aren't necessarily good or bad. I've employed people with these victim attitudes and they have to be encouraged to do the least they can do. They don't take ownership and don't realize that the better job they do the better the company does and the better their pay and the better the reputation of the company and the product and they get paid better and have job security.

The CEO or owner takes way more responsibility than their employees. They put up the money or are in debt and unlike their employees, show up in the middle of the night or holidays to deal with emergencies. They think about every single employee, the product or service, and often how to keep their employees on the payroll in slow times. Some of these company owners are not Rockefeller but are regular Joes who just wanted to make a better bass amp or bicycle for all to enjoy. If they employ six people that's cool? If they employ six thousand they are now evil?

 

[chilliwilli]

You should hold it for ransom. Oh what's that they don't believe such a mix up could occur, don't think your capable of seeing this through to the end? Then you have to take things to the next level. Mail them the gain knob, then they will know you mean business.

 

[coyote1]

I've thought some more about this, and I'll have to ask you to clarify the 'error.' If it isn't a typo, what is it?
If it WAS a typo, and someone called and said "Yeah, I'll take it. How shall I send your $300.00?", well, as long as they haven't actually already sent the money, I'd let the seller off the hook. We're not Ebay here.

I'm not asking how you'd cut people slack. I'm asking your opinion on real-world scenarios in which the ethics IMO are not as cut-and-dried as you portrayed them earlier.

Let's return to the car dealer example. You said "Since when do new car dealers host acutions?" When the Dodge Viper first came out, it carried a particular sticker price. But demand for the car was so strong that dealers were, within days, selling the cars for upwards of 20% ABOVE the sticker price! In other words they were, despite the sticker that spelled out a price, merely rolling with the concept of supply and demand.

So let's return to the 'typo' example. A typo is hitting the wrong key by mistake, it is "fat-fingering". It is typing 'yune' when you meant to type 'tune'. It is NOT incorrectly remembering/entering the price you wished to set on an item. Yet merchants do it all the time. You walk into the store for the amazing deal you saw on a bass there just yesterday, only to find the price just shot up. It has happened to me. I own a Marshall Major amp. A local store had one for $900 in good condition, and I figured it would be great to have two of 'em. I came back the next day with cash to buy it, only to find the store had decided it was a "collector's item" and would only sell it to me for four thousand dollars. Even though they'd not even changed the price tag yet!

I agree with you that the OP ought return the amp, and stated so earlier in the thread. But I'm interested in these ethical dilemmas, as they are not as absolute as many folks portray them.