What would you do? (Ethical question)

[chadds]

I dont understand all the rationale about "putting yourself in their shoes" etc.
MF is a corporation. Not a person.
Corporations are not people and do not deserve sympathy nor do they have any for you.

Sympathy?
How have you been ripped off by a large corporation?
Continuing to buy bad food or poorly made products from anyone and you are choosing.
You are correct there is no intrinsic evil or good in a corporation.
Now if corporations are run by people who wouldn't return that amp then I see your concern.

 

[SteveC]

You know what you need to do. You were just hoping a bunch of us would say otherwise so you'd feel better about it doing that instead.

 

[Lazarus.Bird]

I think it is pretty funny that people mentioned they wouldn't want to do classifieds business with anyone in this thread who said they would keep it. What's going to happen, you accidentally send them two basses instead of one?

 

[Batmensch]

No, it's that they show they are willing to consider acting in an unethical manner if they feel it would be to their advantage to do so. Not someone I'd want to deal with either.

 

[Toastfuzz]

I think it is pretty funny that people mentioned they wouldn't want to do classifieds business with anyone in this thread who said they would keep it. What's going to happen, you accidentally send them two basses instead of one?

Yep, don't look at the 100% positive feedback ratings that are there for the purpose of judging a person's trustworthiness. Instead find a random thread and take a single quote out of context of the situation and conversation, and judge them based on that instead.

I'm not dealing anymore in the classifieds with people who say 4 strings were enough for Jaco

 

[babebambi]

I am more worried about dealing with ppl that say one thing then do another ...

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Im one that would vote send it back...and I support Occupy...and the morality of collective and individual responsibility is why.....and I can see how alot of those who dont support Occupy get misinformation about their goals.

Another +1.

 

[coyote1]

Yep, don't look at the 100% positive feedback ratings that are there for the purpose of judging a person's trustworthiness. Instead find a random thread and take a single quote out of context of the situation and conversation, and judge them based on that instead.

I'm not dealing anymore in the classifieds with people who say 4 strings were enough for Jaco

I've never had a bad dealing via the classifieds or ebay. There have been a few that didn't "feel right" at the start, and I dropped 'em waaaay before a deal was made.

I think too many people let their lust & impatience override their good sense. Sellers lust for the cash, buyers lust for the merchandise. You have to be willing to let it go this time if things don't feel right, and wait for a next time.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Why did this thread go past one page?
Ethics is about choosing to do the right thing, regardless of the other party's virtues or flaws.
Crooks generally justify their crimes by blaming their victims.
No political party/perspective has a monopoly on good ethics, and it is pretty disingenuous to bring politics into this.

Yet another +1.

 

[aborgman]

Welcome to "The D". Idiots abound.

Ah... The D.

Link Removed

 

[aborgman]

But I'm glad you've made your mind up that big companies deserve to get screwed when they make a mistake.

Every company deserves to get screwed when they make a mistake - it's the "invisible hand" at work.

Preventing them from suffering the cost of their screwups just delays the inevitable payment.

 

[aborgman]

Right and wrong = fairy tale?

Nah... but

"Right and wrong" = completely subjective individual human construct

 

[Fliptrique]

I look forward to reading your thoughts.

I got a free pair of some really nice shoes in a similiar fashion. I returned them, because they did not belong to me.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

MF has made its money "many times over?!" how do YOU know that? Who the he// are you?

Embarrassing to the poster, and wrong on so many levels! As the CFO of a married couple of very hard-working auto dealers (and Corporate Executives) who have risked a TON to keep 500 people employed, I get so tired of hearing about Evil Corporations.

Guys - corporations are PEOPLE, and these people risk their lives and their futures to follow a dream that makes a lot of our lives better. If I f*** up, I walk away from my job with no real loss. Yeah - I gotta find another employer, but once I do, my cash flow is back to normal. If the "shareholder" goes down, it can ruin him or her permanently. And a lot of other folks too. They're under amazing pressure, trust me!

As for Musician's Friend and Guitar Center, these stores are much better than many give them credit for. I traveled the country playing music in the 70's and 80's, and there were VERY few places that had any decent bass gear. If you broke a string, you'd be lucky to find a set of RotoSound standard gauge. Today, the most mediocre GC has a wealth of usable bass gear that any of us could rely on to get through the gig and more! And there are LOTS of GC's. These guys hire musicians too. True, most of them are too young and inexperienced to help me much, but many of them still try. Musician's Friend is the online equivalent. Amazing gear at amazingly low prices, and a generous return policy too! What a great time to be a bass player!

So someone screwed up! Not the Evil Corporate Shareholder -- just one of the dumb musicians they employ to try to keep the business going. Give them all a break and do the right thing.

First off, corporations are not people. They are a legal abstraction. :scowl:

Guitar Center has also driven a lot of local mom and pops out of business. Those ARE real people. And when they are done doing so they often do a regional consolidation of stores so where you once had 4 music stores in two towns, ten years later you have one GC in a suburb adjacent to those two towns.
Of course that GC will be full of hip guitar dudes that have NO IDEA what they are talking about. As opposed to the mom and pops which were more expensive to be sure, but were also able to fix almost anything and were a repository of knowledge about musical instruments beyond bass, guitar and drums.

 

[ThudThudThud]

Karma is a b*tch.

You know what to do.

 

[aborgman]

So it's OK to STEAL from some people as long as you rationalize it by using a socialist agenda?

Steal: Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right.

If they accidentally delivered it to you:

1) It may be unethical to keep
2) It may be immoral to keep
3) It is not, by definition, stealing.

 

[babebambi]

If your are only doing nice thing because of karma
Then it's no different than doing nice thing in front of a crowd to get praised.

Same goes for NOT doing bad things because of karma
Just like NOT doing bad things because of a judging crowd.

 

[Gaius46]

First off, corporations are not people. They are a legal abstraction. :scowl:

Guitar Center has also driven a lot of local mom and pops out of business. Those ARE real people. And when they are done doing so they often do a regional consolidation of stores so where you once had 4 music stores in two towns, ten years later you have one GC in a suburb adjacent to those two towns.
Of course that GC will be full of hip guitar dudes that have NO IDEA what they are talking about. As opposed to the mom and pops which were more expensive to be sure, but were also able to fix almost anything and were a repository of knowledge about musical instruments beyond bass, guitar and drums.

Again, corporations may not be people but they employ people, their owners are people and their customers are people. Fo ignore the fact that ones unethical or illegal actions with respect to a company do not potentially harm those people is either naivete or willful blindness.

As regards GC - it is irrelevant to this discussion. The market where GC thrives has spoken. They care more about price than knowledgeable sales staff. GC has done nothing illegal and even if they had it is not justification for you to do something unethical or illegal in return.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

Sympathy?
How have you been ripped off by a large corporation?

Well now that you ask, there was the decent paying union job that I had with a telecommunications company. They decided to outsource my entire dept. So they spent a year whittling down the dept by throwing the book at every minor infraction. Late for work by 5 minutes 3 times in 6 months? Outta here. After they got rid of over 85% of the dept, those left standing got severance pay.
Then there are all my dealings with AT&T. Let me just say, NEVER get suckered into their online store deals. They apparently don't think they need to deliver on them. And if you disagree, you pay $400 for early termination.
Or how paypal treated me like a criminal when I had been identity thefted. Wells Fargo stepped up and helped me fix things, while Paypal wouldnt stop fraudulent charges until days after I initially notified them.
And of course, there is always the price of gas.

 

[lfmn16]

The biggest surprise in this thread is finding out how many people on this forum are OK with keeping the amp.

If someone wants to keep something that's not theirs, just do it, don't insult everyone else by trying to justify it or pretend it's OK.