What would you have done

[fishdude101101]

Nothing you did was "being a jerk" except this.

"I then send a group text to the old lead player on the old band chat. Told her you’ve had your chance, been dismissive of me one too many times, I’ve taken the band to a new amazing lead player, see ya later."

This was ridiculously immature, ESPECIALLY via text. There was absolutely no need for this. Now all you have with her is a burned bridge. And there was no need for that. This is middle school playground drama. It was the text version of this.
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Everything else is just grownups going in different directions.

Glad you found a new guy and the new band is looking up.

Honest question, is it really even a bridge that matters? I see your point, but I used to be the classic "take the high road" guy. All it ever got me was people trying to take advantage of me. I'm not a jerk, but once I quit always trying to be the nice guy things just started falling into place for me, and people quit testing my limits.

 

[LBS-bass]

I think I am not understanding the interaction. Unless her side pursuit was causing a conflict (missing rehearsals, not available for gigs) then I don’t think I would have asked about priorities and kicked all this off.

This. I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks one band that plays a few times a month should be someone's priority. There's usually enough room in my life for four or five bands, and I'm not going to take kindly to being told I have to prioritize a particular situation when there's nothing major pending on the books. If you've got a show coming up in the next three weeks, I'm there to do what's needed, but I get to choose how I prioritize my time overall.

She wanted to take some time to get to know some other players but was there a compelling reason she shouldn't? That's what I'm unclear about.

Otherwise, it sounds like you brought in another player who was perhaps a better fit, musically. Hopefully it all works out, but it's possible you'll run into the same situation. Good players are in demand and the better the player, the less likely they'll want to be "exclusive" to your band.

Best of luck and I hope it works out with the new guy.

 

[LBS-bass]

Seemed like the side pursuit of her's kept them from booking more gigs. That's now I read it.

I find that a little hard to believe. There are easy ways to juggle a busy schedule and I've been in way more than two bands and managed to keep everyone happy. If someone really wants you, they book far enough in advance that they'll get you.

The mistake she made was trying to plot out her availability in advance. It sounds like she wasn't highly available, but clearly that wasn't because of the other band, since that didn't work out. I certainly don't know my own availability a year out at this point.

Someone up there talked about how having cancer changes you. It's possible she wanted to take more time to be with her other friends and family, to travel, to do other things. Maybe playing music isn't her only goal in life. The situation sounds mismatched in a lot of ways.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

This ...

In a 4 piece Classic Rock/Country cover band, all members are over 50. The singer is female, lead is a female, she formed the band and acts as boss

... doesn't equate to:

I wait a few days and send a group message to her and ask, what is your priority, I then say that not playing for 6 months prior to last gig has really caused me to lose interest in the band and I fear that her not having time to play now will really kill my interest in band. I just ask for a simple answer, what is first priority?

I then send a group text to the old lead player on the old band chat. Told her you’ve had your chance, been dismissive of me one too many times, I’ve taken the band to a new amazing lead player, see ya later.

Clearly, she doesn't "act as boss"; not based upon what you've shared here.

First off, you sent a GROUP message. From what I can tell, you were instigating this. There were no private discussions with the singer or drummer to see if they felt similarly to you? No private discussion with the lead player, voicing your concerns and giving her a chance to either explain herself or to make it right with you guys?

This kind of sounds like a classic, passive/aggressive, power-play taker over.

Then, after a replacement was found, you sent another GROUP message where you seem to be taking a bit of a vindictive posture (highlighted in blue) and belittling her, publicly. In the military, we had an saying: "Praise in public. Punish in private." you seem to have gone out of your way to do the opposite.

Lastly, you mention that YOU've taken the band ...

Based upon what you wrote, YOU seem to be "act(ing) as boss".

ETA: I apologize. I didn't answer the question in the title, directly.

1) I would have had a side (private) discussion with the lead player. I would have been brutally honest ("You're not even the best guitar player in this town ..."), but I would have made sure she knew why I felt the way I did.

2) I would have had a private discussion with the drummer to see if he agreed with my musical assessment. I would have asked him if he was okay with my divulging details of the conversation with the singer.

3) I would have had a private conversation with the singer and "taken her temperature" on the situation, possibly telling her about the drummer's comments.

4) I would have had a conversation with the drummer and singer, preferably face-to-face.

5) I would have asked for a group meeting and let the lead player know where everyone stood.

 

[two fingers]

Honest question, is it really even a bridge that matters? I see your point, but I used to be the classic "take the high road" guy. All it ever got me was people trying to take advantage of me. I'm not a jerk, but once I quit always trying to be the nice guy things just started falling into place for me, and people quit testing my limits.

Here's the thing. The situation was OVER. They had found a new guitar player. That lady was out of the band. This was an after-the-fact "nah nah nee boo boo" immature act. NOTHING was served, except OP's fragile ego, by sending that text.

 

[fishdude101101]

Here's the thing. The situation was OVER. They had found a new guitar player. That lady was out of the band. This was an after-the-fact "nah nah nee boo boo" immature act. NOTHING was served, except OP's fragile ego, by sending that text.

Hey you're probably right, but sometimes it feels good to say exactly what you're thinking.

 

[fishdude101101]

I find that a little hard to believe. There are easy ways to juggle a busy schedule and I've been in way more than two bands and managed to keep everyone happy. If someone really wants you, they book far enough in advance that they'll get you.

The mistake she made was trying to plot out her availability in advance. It sounds like she wasn't highly available, but clearly that wasn't because of the other band, since that didn't work out. I certainly don't know my own availability a year out at this point.

Someone up there talked about how having cancer changes you. It's possible she wanted to take more time to be with her other friends and family, to travel, to do other things. Maybe playing music isn't her only goal in life. The situation sounds mismatched in a lot of ways.

I was just going by what the OP said. She went to play with another band then suddenly was only available for a handful of dates, unless I read something wrong. People are welcome to state the their availability, others aren't obligated to accept it.

If her priorities changed, as far as playing music, in my opinion its best to do the right thing get out of the way so the others that want to do it more can do so. That's what I've done in the past, just agree to play everything booked or until a replacement was found.

 

[two fingers]

Hey you're probably right, but sometimes it feels good to say exactly what you're thinking.

Sometimes it feels good to walk into a bank and walk out with $10,000 of somebody else's money. That don't make it right.

 

[rtslinger]

upward and onward to bigger and better things

 

[IanStephenson]

This. I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks one band that plays a few times a month should be someone's priority. There's usually enough room in my life for four or five bands, and I'm not going to take kindly to being told I have to prioritize a particular situation when there's nothing major pending on the books. If you've got a show coming up in the next three weeks, I'm there to do what's needed, but I get to choose how I prioritize my time overall.

She wanted to take some time to get to know some other players but was there a compelling reason she shouldn't? That's what I'm unclear about.

I'm replying to this, because I both agree with it, and disagree with it!

I was on the receiving end of something similar a few months ago, when my main band "discovered" I had a side project, and the BL was pissed off that I had a "secret". My "secret" was blown when we sent him an invite to the first gig - guess I need to work on my secret keeping. He gigs regularly as a solo artist (as do others in the band), but objected to my side project and asked me to cancel one of my side project gigs. When I pointed out he wouldn't cancel one of his solo gigs, he said that was different, because he'd committed to do those! In several years with the band this was the biggest conflict there'd been, but what I did in my spare time was none of his concern, and if I mark a night as busy in the calendar (as we all do), then that's a night I'm not available - no questions, because that's how it is for everyone in the band.

From that experience, the guitarist should be free to join another project, and manage her time.

Where I think this is slightly different is that she's playing catch up. She' s struggling to keep up with the band, and after a long break she needs to put some work in to get up to speed. The band did the right thing standing by her while she was unwell, but now she's back she should be repaying that with effort. If she can't do the work needed to learn material for one band, then taking on a second band is probably a deal breaker.

I think the band probably should have asked if she had the time to commit to both bands. It seems like she didn't, at which point she should have been allowed to make the choice. But it seems like there's a bit more history here that led them to make that decision for her.

 

[hrodbert696]

Anyone is perfectly entitled to play with whomever they want, who also wants to play with them. A band stays together as long as the band is meeting the goals of each of the people in it; if someone finds their aims aren't being served, they're free to move on to find a situation where they are. In this case, there was nothing wrong with this guitarist wanting to try playing with some other people, but if the rest of you had goals that entailed everyone rehearsing and gigging together regularly, and she couldn't do that while also playing with the other people, then naturally y'all are going to part ways. That's just how the cookie crumbles.

But given that's the case, there's no call for recriminations or rubbing anyone's nose in it as though they had done wrong. The communications here were unprofessional.

 

[Bass Viking]

Sometimes it feels good to walk into a bank and walk out with $10,000 of somebody else's money. That don't make it right.

And you know this how?!!

 

[two fingers]

And you know this how?!!

OK..... better example that I have lived through. Sometimes it "feels good" to go have sex with someone else when you're in a monogamous relationship. Yes, the sex felt great. But it wasn't the right thing to do.

 

[gln1955]

I was just going by what the OP said. She went to play with another band then suddenly was only available for a handful of dates, unless I read something wrong. People are welcome to state the their availability, others aren't obligated to accept it.
.

Yeah, when she said one or two days a month from here on out, that made is pretty clear the OP's band was getting scraps. She would have been better just saying she can only do one band and she's going with the new opportunity.

 

[Shalto]

I was on the receiving end of something similar a few months ago, when my main band "discovered" I had a side project, and the BL was pissed off that I had a "secret". My "secret" was blown when we sent him an invite to the first gig - guess I need to work on my secret keeping. He gigs regularly as a solo artist (as do others in the band), but objected to my side project and asked me to cancel one of my side project gigs. When I pointed out he wouldn't cancel one of his solo gigs, he said that was different, because he'd committed to do those! In several years with the band this was the biggest conflict there'd been, but what I did in my spare time was none of his concern, and if I mark a night as busy in the calendar (as we all do), then that's a night I'm not available - no questions, because that's how it is for everyone in the band

I'm with you on this but would add that if someone in the band is trying to control what you do with your time away from the band, then they are trying to take control of your free time, therefore they need to pay you for that time.

So if anyone's feeling mischievous, the response to being told "You can't play with anyone else" could be "Cool so if you want to tell me what I can do with my free time then be aware I charge "x"* per hour for services....are you willing to pay that?"

*don't forget to add it penalty rates for weekends and public holidays, overtime outside 8000-1800hrs

 

[Spidey2112]

"We go out in the world and take our chances...
Fate is just the weight of circumstances That's the way that Lady Luck dances
Roll the bones..."

RUSH

 

[fishdude101101]

Sometimes it feels good to walk into a bank and walk out with $10,000 of somebody else's money. That don't make it right.

Sure. Not really apples to apples though right? I don't see any reason to take the high road 100% of the time. Less than good people see it as an chance to get one over on you, and sometimes people do need called out on their crap. I'm not sure what part you found wrong, was it the mention of how good the new players was?

I just think about the day job I have, and how many problems would be solved if we didn't have to be damned polite. I'm in hour 10 of stupid teams call humoring bad ideas.

 

[two fingers]

Sure. Not really apples to apples though right? I don't see any reason to take the high road 100% of the time. Less than good people see it as an chance to get one over on you, and sometimes people do need called out on their crap. I'm not sure what part you found wrong, was it the mention of how good the new players was?

I just think about the day job I have, and how many problems would be solved if we didn't have to be damned polite. I'm in hour 10 of stupid teams call humoring bad ideas.

The tone of the text in general.

It wasn't "We've moved on. You are officially no longer part of our band. Best of luck with your next venture."

It was "You didn't like my ideas and we found somebody even better than you so suck it."

Again, this communication was AFTER the band had moved on. So it was a bona-fide "screw you" and nothing more.

In the case of your team meetings, there's also a graceful way to move things along without having to hear the hour-long version of every single idea. But "You guys are stupid and we don't have time for this BS" isn't the way to go about it. You do NOT have to be rude to he forceful. You do NOT have to he rude to motivate people.

And, in OP's situation, he made is where he's no better than she was. She disrespected the band's time. He simply sent a disrespectful text. Both are immature. End of story.

And it's binary. You're either acting in an immature manner or you aren't. "Yeah, well she was ever worser-er than me!" only serves to prove my point.

I've run meetings. I've never offended anyone that I'm aware of. But I haven't had to be a doormat to spare everyone's feelings. I can still be motivating and decisive without being a D word.

Heck, my band mates and I disagree all the time. None of us has any problem expressing his/her opinions. But we remain respectful. And we're great friends as a result. Nobody is a doormat. And nobody is a D word. It can be done.

Sounds to me like you lived your life as a doormat so long that your pendulum has swung too far the other way. I admit I'm guessing here.

 

[Nev375]

The best way to not come off as a jerk is to say as little as possible and let your actions do the talking.

How you felt about her is none of her or anyone else's business. That kind of negativity need not be broadcast. Those are your feelings to deal with. The fact that she took herself out and got instantly replaced is going to hit her far harder and haunt her longer the moment she comes to realize it. And that's none of your business either.

By saying nothing you leave doors open and bridges in tact for the future. You both might get over your negative feelings one day. And there's even a slight chance that she takes this as an inspiration to buckle down and get good. It's her loss for now, but it might be yours someday. That's karma.

 

[Bass Viking]

Honest question, is it really even a bridge that matters? I see your point, but I used to be the classic "take the high road" guy. All it ever got me was people trying to take advantage of me. I'm not a jerk, but once I quit always trying to be the nice guy things just started falling into place for me, and people quit testing my limits.

I hear you. Some people really do need to be told. They may not like it but they will respect you (even if they won't admit it) if you show you're not a pushover.