Whats the dirt on compression?

[Steamtronic]

Hi, been researching compression and watched an excellent vid by mikebass on youtube (thanks if you read this mike! Makes sense to compress your signal live to help the sound guy help you be heard. Then I read a link a helpful TB'er posted which seems to advise that overdrive or distortion make compression unneccessary: to quote:

"Overdrive, distortion, and fuzz compress your signal already, so additional compression is often unnecessary. Additionally, compression can often roll off the "edge" of the distorted signal, even to the point of nearly canceling out the dirt effect altogether (in extreme cases). So you don't want to place the compressor after the dirt. On the other hand, many overdrives work/sound best if your signal has a wide dynamic range going into them, so in that case you wouldn't want the compressor before the dirt either! It's often best to just switch the compression off while using OD/distortion. If that's not an option, just experiment to find the compromise that sounds OK to you. "

So do I get a compressor or no? I use a DM6 (line 6 distortion modeller) as I dont get a lot of dirt out of my head (peavey tour 700) so would this effectively make a compressor redundant? I was looking at getting a DBX 266xs rackmount and putting it into the head's effects loop (bass->DM6->head->compressor in fx loop->head->cab).

 

[MrMerrey]

It depend exactly how you want to use your compressor, which will depend on how you play. If you are using as a booster which it sound like you are, then you don't need it with distortion or overdrive. If you are using it to smooth out your sound, to bring out your highs to match the lows so you can hear your high runs as clearly as your lower held notes then it is more useful.

 

[seanm]

Hi, been researching compression and watched an excellent vid by mikebass on youtube (thanks if you read this mike! Makes sense to compress your signal live to help the sound guy help you be heard.

I haven't seen mikebass' video... but I don't think you need to compress the signal to help the sound guy. He probably has much better compressors than you do, and will apply them as needed. We don't have a sound guy very often, but when we do I always ask about compression. So far none of them have said they compressed my signal. Generally they need to compress slap bassists, not finger or pick bassists.

So I would only use compression if you feel your sound needs it. I wouldn't try to second guess the sound guy.

 

[dheafey]

Hi, been researching compression and watched an excellent vid by mikebass on youtube (thanks if you read this mike! Makes sense to compress your signal live to help the sound guy help you be heard. Then I read a link a helpful TB'er posted which seems to advise that overdrive or distortion make compression unneccessary: to quote:

"Overdrive, distortion, and fuzz compress your signal already, so additional compression is often unnecessary. Additionally, compression can often roll off the "edge" of the distorted signal, even to the point of nearly canceling out the dirt effect altogether (in extreme cases). So you don't want to place the compressor after the dirt. On the other hand, many overdrives work/sound best if your signal has a wide dynamic range going into them, so in that case you wouldn't want the compressor before the dirt either! It's often best to just switch the compression off while using OD/distortion. If that's not an option, just experiment to find the compromise that sounds OK to you. "

So do I get a compressor or no? I use a DM6 (line 6 distortion modeller) as I dont get a lot of dirt out of my head (peavey tour 700) so would this effectively make a compressor redundant? I was looking at getting a DBX 266xs rackmount and putting it into the head's effects loop (bass->DM6->head->compressor in fx loop->head->cab).

First, go to ovnilab.com and read, read, read. The FAQ section is fantastic; it's a tutorial on the different types of compression and why you would choose one over the other. Second, I personally don't trust the compression on FOH boards to do a good job on bass. Sure, they work as a decent tool for FOH, but a purpose-built BASS compressor that you pick will go much further towards shaping your sound the way you want.

 

[4Mal]

As a sound guy, I don't need the help thanks though...

Instead of the dedicated comp and dirt, why not a Zoom B3 ? I spent some time chasing down the Boo-Teak pedal array and the B3 simply works. You have your dirt, emulation and compression plus some great time based effects and a couple of better than average synths.

I've messed with comps over the years. Was convinced I needed one for a long time. Either my technique is now better or I came to my senses... I think they do more harm than good for a lot of folks in a live environment. The sound guy can't create dynamic range that is already lost to overly compressed tone. Tom Scholtz made that work for guitars in Boston but I've never heard anybody rave about the bass tone on those records...

As a sound guy, I'm trying to create an integrated mix. I want everything in the Mix and I want to deliver a 'cd quality' experience for the audience. I will sometimes compress a bass guitar a little - but just a little goes a long way IME. It's easy to over do it and turn the bottom end mix into mud...

 

[Barisaxman]

"It Depends". I'm leaning back toward using compression on my rig just for some tone shaping and evening-out of my signal. I don't generally like a lot of compression and I can be perfectly happy using none, which I have done for years. It's really a matter of whether or not you want to use that tool to achieve your sound. From a FOH/soundguy perspective, I use as little as possible and only where I need to. Usually I use it as more of a limiting tool for vocalists or musicians whose signal is erratic enough that I need to reduce the dynamic range a bit in order to make the mix work for as much of the audience as possible. I don't want to squash it to CD or radio levels, because it's live music after all, but it certainly can work as another element in the toolbox. Whether or not the bassist is using a compressor prior to my FOH feed (via pedal or rack unit) really isn't that important to me, as I'll generally add more compression only if needed to make things work out in the house.

IMO/IME, there's simply no rule that certain things have to be compressed and others shouldn't be, it's simply a matter of personal taste on the part of the bass player, foh engineer, or both.

 

[monkeyfinger]

As a sound guy, I don't need the help thanks though...

Instead of the dedicated comp and dirt, why not a Zoom B3 ? I spent some time chasing down the Boo-Teak pedal array and the B3 simply works. You have your dirt, emulation and compression plus some great time based effects and a couple of better than average synths.

I've messed with comps over the years. Was convinced I needed one for a long time. Either my technique is now better or I came to my senses... I think they do more harm than good for a lot of folks in a live environment. The sound guy can't create dynamic range that is already lost to overly compressed tone. Tom Scholtz made that work for guitars in Boston but I've never heard anybody rave about the bass tone on those records...

As a sound guy, I'm trying to create an integrated mix. I want everything in the Mix and I want to deliver a 'cd quality' experience for the audience. I will sometimes compress a bass guitar a little - but just a little goes a long way IME. It's easy to over do it and turn the bottom end mix into mud...

Sounds like you would not be able to work with many of the pro players out there. Tony Levin and Billy Sheehan come to mind. You are the sound guy, not the producer. Do you understand the difference?

 

[KeithAlanK]

I've had too many people use way too much compression in their rigs....badly.
Spend your $$ on something else.