What's wrong with 2023 audiences?

[Five or Six]

I guess I'd have to ask, what is your stage presence? Got anyone engaging the crowd or do you all show your disappointment in what's not happening. If any band looks like they just crapped their drawers and and show no energy, that will be returned in spades. In fact, crowd may just exit. About the time my band played disco our crowd would run to an exit. Location probably matters I'm sure. I'm sure none of "your crowd" wasn't there either, ie: no support?

What's your target age group? You will never please everyone! Someone else said it. May be time to reevaluate your music selection. I will agree with you on one point. No reaction out of the family, not even a thank you, is BS!

 

[WI Short Scaler]

Last night my trio was asked to play a benefit for leukemia. Someones daughter had actually survived and they were doing a fundraiser. We were all but ignored, they didn't offer us any of the communal food...the family of the girl didn't acknowledge us.
A paid wallpaper gig is one thing. I get a Benjamin to be ignored.
A wallpaper benefit gig is actually unacceptable. I've been honing my singing and playing skills for 40 years! We donated our time, skills, and the use of $10,000 in gear to a good cause.
I'm disgusted. I'm sure I'm just an old man yelling at clouds- but I think I'm done playing benefits unless there's concessions made for the band (FOOD FOOD FOOD!).
I worked half a day at my day job and lost $$$ to be a hothouse flower centerpiece?
I can't wait to make a hundy this Saturday getting ignored. It's so much better than volunteering for it...

Not arguing with you, but just chiming in.

We do at least one benefit per year. If we're asked and available we'll do it. Our only provision for doing them is when it's a multi-band event and we just show up with guitars/cajon, not providing PA.

When there is a benefit for someone with a medical condition and the purpose of the event is to raise $$'s for their bills, you ARE the wallpaper music, or the potted plant in corner. Seems others have the same opinion but that's your role.

We are doing one on this Sat. Bring our guitars/cajon and play/sing through whatever FOH they have. There will be food, drinks, raffles, games and we fully intend to play our stuff as well as we can with a minimum of fanfare and go on our way. That's the role you're intended for.

If you don't feel appreciated or are that upset that no one ran over to throw some food your way than maybe you should bow out of future requests. Many of the people that attend such a function won't like your music selection whatever you play, many just want to talk to others, they want to discuss raffle prizes, etc. Your presence may be barely noticed. It's not a dance party. Calling it unacceptable that your skills weren't the topic of the day clarifies just how you aren't made for this type of event. And you got a Benjamin out of it? Than you're really doing it for the wrong reasons.

So why do it? Because any of us could find ourselves in this spot and hope that others will step forward to help us out.

 

[Altitude]

I agree with you here. People still go out to drink. I have always seen this DUI crackdown thing as an excuse bar owners started using to get away with paying less. "Nobody comes out anymore - I can't afford to pay you what you're asking." And that's always been BS. The margins they make on liquor are astronomical - they can afford to pay you even if the place isn't standing-room packed.

People probably aren't going to live music as a draw anymore because the bands you can find working for that money aren't as good. Clubs no longer work to establish a reputation for quality entertainment, and not as many people are inclined to stick around a poorly executed performance. But hey, even if the band isn't good, the bar owner got over on those entertainment expenses, right?

With you here. When I was coming up in Austin (mid 80s), at any point there were maybe 12 to 20 bands that occupied the preponderance of the stage time up and down 6th Street. And most of them had multiple vertical bookings, meaning that a given band would be at the Toulouse club on Mondays, Steamboat on Wednesdays, and Maggie Mae's on Fridays.

These were bands like 14K, Extreme Heat, the Bizness, Bad Mutha Goose, and a few heavy blues guys like Guy Forsythe. (Nobody here will recognize these bands now; I put the names in only as an Easter Egg to someone who might be from Austin in the day and runs across this.) But the point is that all of them were pro acts. In most cases they were musically better than the artists they covered. It was a very different experience.

 

[hrodbert696]

I don't disagree that people are still going out and drinking, I just think the number is greatly less than it was back in those early years. Every bar was full back then, now, not so much.

Maybe, but there's more than one explanation. Didn't Gordon Ramsey have a spin-off show, or someone else like him, about bailing out failing bars, the way he did for restaurants? I think there are a lot of people who have a retirement fantasy or whatever of opening a cool bar and presiding over it like Fezziwig at the Christmas party in Dickens. I've seen articles, already pre-Covid, saying that the bar and restaurant business was due for a shakeout - there were just too many of them and not enough qualified chefs and bartenders and such, and probably not enough clientele to go around either. You might have just as many people as ever going out drinking, and still have a bunch of half-empty bars.

There was one that opened in our central city, Manchester, located in the same building as the highest-profile piercing and tattoo shop - a big place - and owned by the same people. People knew the place. They opened this big beautiful bar, put in a big stage and a great sound system, hired sound guys and all. Mugshot Monday played there several times - and they just couldn't fill the place. They had a car show and Lee Rocker from the Stray Cats played and it was emptier than with my cover band playing there. I couldn't believe it.

I think they had two problems. One, it was a big room but there was only street parking nearby, and little of that to spare already. And two, the town already has several popular bars with music - Penuche's, the Wild Rover, the Goat, Jewel, Murphy's Taproom, the Shaskeen, the Derryfield - for a town of around 100,000 (all of them closer to parking lots or garages). It lasted maybe a year or two and then closed its doors, allegedly for a makeover but the spring reopening date came and went and they're still dark.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Overall, we were the wrong band for that bar because the stuff they played on our breaks was some sort of house beats, 4 on the floor thumping 70's riff rock with county twanged rap vocals singing about slinging mud with trucks, chicks and beer. I had never heard the stuff before. I hope I don't again.

This? ...

 

[salmon256]

Speaking of beer breweries, this crowd seems to dig it... or is this technically a beer garden and they are more rowdy? I'm not sure I don't drink

 

[LBS-bass]

Not arguing with you, but just chiming in.

We do at least one benefit per year. If we're asked and available we'll do it. Our only provision for doing them is when it's a multi-band event and we just show up with guitars/cajon, not providing PA.

When there is a benefit for someone with a medical condition and the purpose of the event is to raise $$'s for their bills, you ARE the wallpaper music, or the potted plant in corner. Seems others have the same opinion but that's your role.

We are doing one on this Sat. Bring our guitars/cajon and play/sing through whatever FOH they have. There will be food, drinks, raffles, games and we fully intend to play our stuff as well as we can with a minimum of fanfare and go on our way. That's the role you're intended for.

If you don't feel appreciated or are that upset that no one ran over to throw some food your way than maybe you should bow out of future requests. Many of the people that attend such a function won't like your music selection whatever you play, many just want to talk to others, they want to discuss raffle prizes, etc. Your presence may be barely noticed. It's not a dance party. Calling it unacceptable that your skills weren't the topic of the day clarifies just how you aren't made for this type of event. And you got a Benjamin out of it? Than you're really doing it for the wrong reasons.

So why do it? Because any of us could find ourselves in this spot and hope that others will step forward to help us out.

Very well said. The last benefit I did was for a Cancer Society event. My musical duo partner at the time and I set up in a corner of the room and improvised quietly over jazz and blues changes all night. Nobody sang. It was exactly the right vibe for the event. A few folks glanced our way occasionally with smiles, but we weren't expecting to be the center of attention; that was for the Society and their raffles and so on. We also were paid well for this. Overall, it was a fine little gig.

 

[salmon256]

depends on location, venue, fan base and genre

I strongly agree with the genre it changes the fans ways. Reggae at least my area everyone is chill and claps laughs, punk, a lot of screaming and shouting (some fluids...) and Shoegaze, quiet, depressing but that's the vibe lol!

 

[silky smoove]

My GB group doesn't have this issue at any of the events we do. Pinning it on "2023 audiences" is quite a bit too broad. Out of all the gigs we did last year we only had one with an unreceptive crowd, and that was just the vibe of the event. It happens, but the vast majority of the time (i.e. almost entirely) we have crowds that are on their feet, dancing, and partying all night. We also have a well organized show with choreographed lights, dancing, costume changes, zero dead air, no stage banter that isn't orchestrated into the show, and each song flows seamlessly into the next such that each 45-minute set feels like one continuous song with zero interuptions to the audience's ability to dance and have a good time. It's a huge amount of work to prep and perform at each gig, but it's well worth the investment in time and effort. When I see a local band complaining that audiences aren't into their performance I typically find that it's just a bunch of dudes playing songs at a crowd with no thoughts of the performance as a show. If you're just playing songs that anyone could just as easily listen to on their phone, and not providing an additional value proposition in terms of entertainment, then it's likely time to look at revamping the performance, or to consider different types of gigs where the current performance would be better suited and more well-received.

 

[slagbass]

That said, I have played fundraisers and benefits for cancer societies, etc., and the focus at those events it not meant to be the music. You are background. You ARE the wallpaper and if you can't accept that is your role, it's best to not do those gigs.

I've played a few cancer fundraisers (for free) over the years and completely agree. All I expected was to be thanked by the host/organizer. And I have never been disappointed.

 

[Killing Floor]

What's wrong with iems? Quieter stages produce better foh mixes. Quieter rehearsals/performances save hearing. I don't see any downside to either.

The wall of sound from some bands can be overwhelming. I get that.
The sonic disconnect between some bands and their audience is equally overwhelming.
The point I made, and it has nothing to do with hearing, sound limits, or any technical or mixing topics, is that the audience being buried in their phone can sometimes be the same as a musician isolating themselves from the stage and audience.
But there are plenty people who use them effectively. Just as there are people who assume some players are phoning it in.
Can’t acknowledge one without the other. That’s all.

 

[jnewmark]

View attachment 5073568

Pretty much this.

 

[Auspuff]

View attachment 5073568

THIS!!!

 

[LBS-bass]

Maybe, but there's more than one explanation. Didn't Gordon Ramsey have a spin-off show, or someone else like him, about bailing out failing bars, the way he did for restaurants? I think there are a lot of people who have a retirement fantasy or whatever of opening a cool bar and presiding over it like Fezziwig at the Christmas party in Dickens. I've seen articles, already pre-Covid, saying that the bar and restaurant business was due for a shakeout - there were just too many of them and not enough qualified chefs and bartenders and such, and probably not enough clientele to go around either. You might have just as many people as ever going out drinking, and still have a bunch of half-empty bars.

There was one that opened in our central city, Manchester, located in the same building as the highest-profile piercing and tattoo shop - a big place - and owned by the same people. People knew the place. They opened this big beautiful bar, put in a big stage and a great sound system, hired sound guys and all. Mugshot Monday played there several times - and they just couldn't fill the place. They had a car show and Lee Rocker from the Stray Cats played and it was emptier than with my cover band playing there. I couldn't believe it.

I think they had two problems. One, it was a big room but there was only street parking nearby, and little of that to spare already. And two, the town already has several popular bars with music - Penuche's, the Wild Rover, the Goat, Jewel, Murphy's Taproom, the Shaskeen, the Derryfield - for a town of around 100,000 (all of them closer to parking lots or garages). It lasted maybe a year or two and then closed its doors, allegedly for a makeover but the spring reopening date came and went and they're still dark.

One thing that I've noted in my area is that there are one or two groups of local investors/developers that have come in and started buying up nightclubs that were once independently operated. So there's very much a corporate vibe coming in and replacing what used to be quirky little neighborhood venues, with one group of people making a lot of decisions about who gets to play for what sort of money in this town.

 

[fishdude101101]

Good question. For the most part we play hipster microbreweries. Early gigs, with family and dog in tow. Charlotte (the whole metro) is a microbrewery mecca. The layout is usually a warehouse brewery, an indoor drinking/stage area, AND/OR an outdoor drinking/stage area. There's young bankers and their wives babies and dogs.
It's a scene that really didn't exist when many of us were coming up. These are generally not drunks. They drink a few obscenely overpriced IPAs and eat from an obscenely overpriced gourmet food truck.

Most of these places have moderately polite audiences. The gig averages between 18:30 to 21:30-ish cause officially these places arent BARS. They have "tasting" licenses which differ from other beer and wine places and must stop serving way before 23:00.

Last night was particularly bad. It wasnt a microbrewery but it was an automated tap house. They prepay and get a code to tap various blueberry IPAs etc.
Honestly we could make a better visual presentation. I've talked to the boys about clothing, but you can lead a deadhead to Harvard but you can't make him think...

Well theres the problem. I'm just going to be honest, here that scene screams "too cool to have fun". I mean c'mon, we all know IPA's are just a way to virtue signal coolness and sophistication...kick me outta here if you must. I'm pretty sure nobody likes them anyway, its just that they taste so horrible the normies won't come in an steal their cool like they did with everything else "hipster"

Plus the IPA crowd doesn't get drunk enough to have fun (how could you, you'd be sick from that crap), especially at 6:30 pm with your family/kids there.

Plus they are just kinda boring and/or miserable people.

In summary:
1) Too early
2) not enough booze
3) too many stuck up people.

 

[Discount Bassy]

No comment.

 

[fishdude101101]

I figured I would just respond to both of these quotes. It seems like the microbreweries and that demographic definitely aren't your place. Your band, based on what you've described, and these locations/demos just seem to be two different worlds. For example, the rock and disco especially seem very out of place for that demographic. On average, the younger person just doesn't want to see a bunch of old guys playing old songs that they (the younger audience) doesn't care about or have any connection to. Are there any other locations you can play that might be more fitting, where you will be better appreciated?

As a 20 something, I've heard and read that "don't know how to react to real life" stuff a lot, and trust me I know it's at least partly in jest, but there is still a huge scene of 20s people going out in general and socializing, as well as going to see music. It's just not the same music anymore/the music you are playing. That is in one sense a type of rebellion that is indeed happening amongst younger people. They simply do not want to go out to see cover bands of guys playing the same songs they've been playing for 40ish years. And there is plenty of both mellow and non-mellow music in the younger demographic. Heard any modern metal variants? Anything but mellow. Things are more fragmented now than they have ever been. There's lots of stuff out there, you just have to find it.

Honestly, I see just as many people who are up into their early 60s who are as addicted to their phones/social media as any other age group. It's not just a young person thing.

I have also talked to many people these days who do not want there to be a band when they go out to a bar or out to eat. They view it as an annoyance, a distraction and a turn off and I've heard it compared to annoying trivia at places, where people will choose to go somewhere else without for their night out.

I don't mean any of this to be insulting, just in case it came off that way. I'm just trying to offer you a different perspective. I definitely understand all of your annoyances with the way things are. I hope you and your group are able to find some local places that you can play regularly that will have a more fitting, appreciative and interactive crowd for you. There's nothing worse than a wallpaper gig.

Good luck!

Currently play in a coverband that seems to do well amongst some younger people. We use terms on here like "old" to describe the music and with such a wide age range on this site, it is all relative. I've had people on here suggest songs from the 60's and 70's.....that stuff is 100% dead in our area. Gotta be 80's or newer.

We play newer material than most in our area but some older stuff that does well with that crowd as well. Heck, they even request it, but its not 60's boomer music either.

 

[BadSanta1281]

It seems like actually having an audience in 2023 is somewhat of a win in itself.

 

[LBS-bass]

This is a perfect example to me of how everyone and every situation is different making it so hard to generalize. I am 58 and i love playing bars (not all bars) because they are almost the only places where people come specifically to see us and we are NOT just background. The bars I play at are the places we get crazy good crowds. I avoid festivals, events etc because those for me are the places we get less crowd reaction. I have a lot of friends even in my market who have experiences more like the one quoted.

Yeah, it's funny, because I see the exact opposite of the OPs situation here in the same kinds of places the OP describes.

Someone up there complained that the audience is just there to drink and party. But that's exactly what we're there to help them do. If you're not there to LEAD that party, you don't understand your job. If you resent the patrons for having the audacity to want to have fun at a beer joint, you've deeply misunderstood the situation you're in.

I've got an outdoor gig coming up at a local tap house and I just ordered two dozen sets of bubbles and wands to set out on the tables to facilitate getting them into a giggling mood. My hope is that we'll have dancers up with those bubbles before the end of the first set. I'll be happy to just see a few of them get used. I might even blow up a few balloons for people to bat around.

My personal goal is for people to leave every show of mine with a big smile and a desire to come out and party with us again. My point is that so much of what happens at these shows is within our control, if we make the effort. We can't hit it out of the park every single time, but we'll keep striking out if we don't at least swing.

 

[juancaminos]

Boy this thread exploded. When I lived in the city my band had a real good front man. He would not stand for people who weren't into the music. He walked out and pout his mic in peoples face, gave away beads & tee shirts. Asked trivia questions about certain songs. We had blow up guitars to hand out, etc. In short we drove the show/party. We were constantly bench marking ways to entertain and get customers as well as staff into the party.

Fast forward to to retirement and a move to the mountains. I joined one of the better bands up here but they are like bumps on a log. In the beginning BL was constantly saying "stop talking on the mic, just play the songs" This blew me away. Eventually, when a particular song was going well, I would yell "somebody scream" and boy did that get a response...and a pissed look by the BL. But our manager said that she didn't care what the BL said just keep doing it. I only do it on the rare occasions when we happen to drive people to a frenzy.

With that said we do play a lot of gigs where we are a secondary distraction at best. But our last gig was great with lots of dancing, cheering, clapping and such. It sure felt good. The one before that was an odd one at a square dance club that has "other" music every six weeks or so just to breaks things up. We filled the dance floor pretty much all night. However this Friday and Saturday we will be on huge outdoor stages at family eating places were there are no dancing and not much care about what's happening on stage. So we so get both. But I really think that my city front man could get things going , I really do!