What's Wrong with Scooping the Mids?

[40Hz]

I am of the "feel" and "not heard" generation.

LOL! And which "generation" was that? I suspect we're not far apart in age. But despite that, I have no issues with mids provided the good lows aren't sacrificed. And I enjoy knowing I'm being heard as well as felt despite not feeling any need to "cut through the mix."

 

[matti777]

I thought the mid cut was explained by the Fletcher–Munson curves. If I understand it right people perceive the mids as being exaggerated at low volumes as this is where the ear is most sensitive. Boosting the bass and highs (scooping) corrects the perceived fall off of the lows and highs at these low volumes. I've only recently started looking deeper into this subject as I dabble in dealing with analyzing acoustical response curves in a bad room.

 

[lfmn16]

Assuming we all play the same music.

It has nothing to do with the kind of music you play. It's the difference between bedroom volume and stage volume and the difference between playing with a recording and playing with other live instruments.

 

[Jefenator]

The lessened prevalence of scooping seems to have coincided with my coming to prefer Ampeg style tube preamps over the Fender tone stacks.

 

[spatters]

I thought the mid cut was explained by the Fletcher–Munson curves. If I understand it right people perceive the mids as being exaggerated at low volumes as this is where the ear is most sensitive. Boosting the bass and highs (scooping) corrects the perceived fall off of the lows and highs at these low volumes. I've only recently started looking deeper into this subject as I dabble in dealing with analyzing acoustical response curves in a bad room.

You are correct.
The problem of "bedroom tone," complete with graphs, is explained here:
20 years playing bass and never thought about volume!

Scooping mids sounds great when you're practicing at low volume, so go ahead and scoop.
But at gig volumes your tone will tend to be muddy, and at recording sessions you'll tend to get lost in the mix.

These are rules of thumb, not laws of nature!
Mixing, for instance, is all about giving each instrument its own space.
An upright bass has little midrange, but a jazz combo doesn't have distorted guitars competing for mids.
A Jamerson-style P-bass with old dead flats has little midrange, but again, he's not competing with distorted guitars.
And so on.

 

[AngelCrusher]

I'm not well acquainted with the amps forum, so bear with me here.

I was trying out the sample settings in the Mesa WD-800's manual today with a drum track and my favourite with my Precision and Jazz was: bass at 1, passive mid at 9 and treble at 11.

Now, when I started playing bass in the early 2000s, mid-scooping was all the rage, at least in acid jazz, jazz fusion, funk and funk rock.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like mid-scooping has since fell out of favour. I'm worried I've become a product of my time, like how James Jamerson was left behind in the 70s because he refused to switch his Precision strung with flats for an active bass with rounds. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'm wondering why mid-scooping fell out of favour. Am I missing something?

did you mean bass at 11?

anyway you are competing with more synths than ever before now and people want a fat bass sound, which equates to having low mids in the sound now. Plus its a fantastic tone in a good mix.

 

[fishdude101101]

Nathan East has made a career out of having a mid-shy tone. First with his "Magic Box", and later with the circuit embedded in his namesake basses. Chuck Rainey over the years has also dialled back his midrange on his active basses. In his words, it keeps his bass from sounding "too nerdy" heh.

The original poster is right, big mids are the sound of the day. Don't care for it myself. But tastes vary and that is ok. I think the midrange-heavy tones of today are why people can play all kinds of gigs these days with a 1x15. You don't need a lot of gear to get a mid heavy tone.

I love Nathan East's tone. it's smooth and pleasant to the ear.

 

[fishdude101101]

It really is just that simple. You need more mids with a live band.

If you bring enough right for the gig you can do scooped mids just fine.

 

[juancaminos]

I am a smiley face guy from way back. But Eden (or any other of the top amps) don't really need a scoop. With great equipment I just need a little treble boost, I'm talking slight. Some times a slight bass boost as well. Mid's shall remain flat.

 

[Hot Rats]

What's Wrong with Scooping the Mids?

Nothing man... nothing.

 

[devnulljp]

Mid scoop on your own sounds pretty good. A Big Muff sounds great at home.
Now play with a band, and you disappear. Might as well stay home.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I'm not well acquainted with the amps forum, so bear with me here.

I was trying out the sample settings in the Mesa WD-800's manual today with a drum track and my favourite with my Precision and Jazz was: bass at 1, passive mid at 9 and treble at 11.

Now, when I started playing bass in the early 2000s, mid-scooping was all the rage, at least in acid jazz, jazz fusion, funk and funk rock.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like mid-scooping has since fell out of favour. I'm worried I've become a product of my time, like how James Jamerson was left behind in the 70s because he refused to switch his Precision strung with flats for an active bass with rounds. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'm wondering why mid-scooping fell out of favour. Am I missing something?

It's only out of flavor among bass players. Everybody else in the music world, scoops bass mids. Producers, engineers, and everybody in your band. It's called "the mix" for a reason. You play bass. Bass needs to fit in the mix, with everybody else. Not be the only thing you hear, and sound honky, nasally, and un-felt.

But, to hear yourself, and not drown people out, in a live band setting, you needs mids, and tamed lows. It's a constant battle between boom, room, and volume.

 

[lermgalieu]

I don't like mids just because they are "in style" - I've never scooped my bass tone. Low mids are the beans in my burrito.

 

[MobileHolmes]

What sounds good in your bedroom does not necessarily translate to a great tone when playing with a band.

Generally speaking, the tones that sound best at the front of the stage sounds pretty bad right at the amp. If it sounds good right next to the amp, it sounds bad in the room

 

[Mili]

Cutting The delicious part?!! to my ears scooped Bass is like "BOOM BOOM + ZING ZING" but there is a drum to BOOM BOOM and Guitar (or keys,...) to ZING ZING.

 

[JimmyM]

I'm not well acquainted with the amps forum, so bear with me here.

I was trying out the sample settings in the Mesa WD-800's manual today with a drum track and my favourite with my Precision and Jazz was: bass at 1, passive mid at 9 and treble at 11.

Now, when I started playing bass in the early 2000s, mid-scooping was all the rage, at least in acid jazz, jazz fusion, funk and funk rock.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like mid-scooping has since fell out of favour. I'm worried I've become a product of my time, like how James Jamerson was left behind in the 70s because he refused to switch his Precision strung with flats for an active bass with rounds. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'm wondering why mid-scooping fell out of favour. Am I missing something?

Too many people back then were scooping too many mids and falling out of dense mixes to the point they couldn't hear themselves, including me. Nowadays I just use a gentle cut and keep the mids stronger. But major mid scooping has its place and shouldn't always be thought of as a bad thing.

 

[JimmyM]

Generally speaking, the tones that sound best at the front of the stage sounds pretty bad right at the amp. If it sounds good right next to the amp, it sounds bad in the room

Where did you hear that?

 

[MobileHolmes]

Where did you hear that?

Personal experience. If it's as bass heavy as I I like at the amp, it will be muddy in the room. What sounds good in the room tends to sound pretty thin up close

 

[jdjk7]

My particular bass has a very honky, mid-heavy tone, to the point where I don't like the tone and neither does anybody else (complaints of "the bass is all can hear"). So I give the low mids a mild scoop in order to bring them more in line with the lows and highs. This is the best way I've found to be heard, particularly in a guitar-heavy mix. It comes through, but not too much.

 

[JimmyM]

Personal experience. If it's as bass heavy as I I like at the amp, it will be muddy in the room. What sounds good in the room tends to sound pretty thin up close

Well hey, this is one of those things that owning a wireless really helps with.