When does a bass upgrade translate to a performance upgrade?

[Bartrinsic]

I have changed strings many times. Never, did a string change make me a better player. Therefore I should never change strings again! Changing strings did change the way the bass sounds. I don't change strings every day and I don't buy the most expensive strings, necessarily. I change strings often enough to learn more about the sound of new vs. old and how different strings fit or don't fit the particular bass, and most importantly, whether I can hear a difference that I care about. What I learn makes me a better player, unless I spend so much time and money learning about 'strings' that I don't practice. This contradiction needs fixing: changing strings in moderation makes me a better player. Replace 'strings' with 'pups', 'pre-amp', 'nut', 'bridge', 'tuning machines'. One example: my Craigslist project bass has epoxy in one peg hole because I failed to watch the YouTube video before drilling them from 9/16" to 11/16" diameter. But now I understand the video and: 1) epoxy is great, 2) bigger machine barrels from the same manufacturer, jammed tightly into the holes sound a little better to me than the skinnier stock barrels that were loosely dropped in (stability maybe?). But I would only attempt this again if the old tuners are shot, as they were in this case.

 

[whero]

There might be a lot of things that can make a bass sound better, but I'd say there are only a limited number of things that can make you play it better. Most (probably not all?) would be related to the neck.

Is it set up properly with the neck straight and flat, and the string height right? What's the neck width and profile? What's the scale/neck length? What's the string spacing? What's the string tension? What's the balance of the bass like (this will influence where your fretting hand is positioned)?

But these things all need to be considered according to your personal body geometry. If you have short arms or short fingers, you might prefer shorter scale basses. If you have small hands or shorter fingers, you might find it harder to play 5 or 6 string basses with wider necks, or you might prefer a "Jazz" neck to a "Precision" neck. If you have fat, stubby fingers you might need wider string spacing.

[Edit: Oops, left out the last (most important) sentence] If you want to change instruments or make upgrades to your existing one, go to your LBS (local bass shop) and play a lot of different things to see what works for you.

 

[Nephilymbass]

I have 2 decent, low-cost "working man's" basses. I've been thinking of an upgrade. Basically, same bass but nicer components. I want to separate inspiration from GAS.

So I'd love to hear your experiences and opinions on the subject. When does a nicer bass translate into making you a better player? Is it as simple as inspiration to pick it up more? Does the craftsmanship translate into something tangible? Or is it all just ego?

I have some theories, but would love to hear YOUR thoughts!

Not always for sure but something I’ve noticed a lot is most people who invest in expensive instruments tend to practice more. I know for me that’s the case. I want to get my moneys worth and nice instruments are inspiring

Sometimes gear can make a big impact. Amps can make a huge impact if you go from struggling to hear yourself to being able to hear yourself really well. Some basses can have positive or negative impacts on the live show because of little things like neck dive or weight. My 6 and 7 strings were relatively heavy. When I went back to 4 and 5 strings my energy onstage went back up a notch.

 

[bearfoot]

When you feel it.

 

[Rob Martini]

I can see and feel the quality that goes into a really well made (and usually expensive) bass. I honestly don’t think I play better with them though and I don’t think the audience knows the difference.

That said, there are usually things about low cost basses that bug me. Not enough to play any worse, but enough to get my low grade OCD cranking.

 

[Rob Martini]

Not always for sure but something I’ve noticed a lot is most people who invest in expensive instruments tend to practice more. I know for me that’s the case. I want to get my moneys worth and nice instruments are inspiring

Sometimes gear can make a big impact. Amps can make a huge impact if you go from struggling to hear yourself to being able to hear yourself really well. Some basses can have positive or negative impacts on the live show because of little things like neck dive or weight. My 6 and 7 strings were relatively heavy. When I went back to 4 and 5 strings my energy onstage went back up a notch.

I agree completely that high quality amps make a huge difference. Much more so than the bass in my opinion.

 

[Rob Martini]

I will add that in my experience, features on higher end basses, (like graphite rods) keep the overall intonation accurate and help the bass stay in in tune more effectively than lower cost basses. The more expensive basses I have had also seem to get better with age for some reason. Could have something to do with wood quality I guess.

 

[zubrycky]

This thread reminded me of this other one...

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/th...all-over-the-world-with-a-100-chinese-sx-bass

BTW, that bass had its pickups and tuning machines changed.

 

[brianrost]

When does a nicer bass translate into making you a better player?

When it exposes the limitations in your technique.

 

[Bartrinsic]

I agree completely that high quality amps make a huge difference. Much more so than the bass in my opinion.

OK, at least as much. There's a quote from one of the founders of Schitt that I try to remember. "Everything makes a difference" (in how it sounds). Then there's another from a former boss from Texas: "Is the juice worth the squeeze?" Mostly what I've gotten from screwing around and blowing money is a better understanding of what changes make a difference that I care about. Necks, pre-amps, effects, amps, cabs, of course!

 

[zubrycky]

Speaking for myself, I am not a believer of modifications at all. For me (and I know my opinion is an unpopular one), this kind of thing a complete waste of money and time.

I collect instruments and I only change its parts if that's absolutely necessary to make an instrument come back to life. I believe that an instrument is what it is and better left this way.

That said, the only upgrade that is really able to improve an already well constructed bass, IMHO, is the change of its tuners and/or bridge, IF any of those two things isn't working properly on the first place.

 

[groooooove]

depends on the bass actually. some high grade basses, that are indeed "fine instruments" by some objective sense of the word, will make a full band sound worse - i feel this way about the peavey cirrus. wonderfully made instruments, but no "oomph" to drive a band.

but, exceptions aside, a "better" bass should mean something tangible in terms of sound. I know when i finally got my hands on my prize instruments i was being complimented on all of my gigs on the sound. even with that, i still think the larger part is that a fine instrument is inspiring to play and behaves in so many ways like a partner rather than a tool.

 

[DrayMiles]

Almost never imo...

 

[CallMeAl]

Not to derail your newfound Zen attitude, but what you want is a Fender American Special Precision Bass.

I know there's a handful out there, but IME they are hard to find. To try in person anyways. Of course I can build-a-bass or mail order one, but theres not that magic spark in the guitar shop.

Glad the Zen is showing

 

[twc1313]

Upgrade can mean different things IMO. A few examples that stand out to me:

1. Getting a neck that is right for you - Sometimes a flatter radius, thicker neck, thinner neck, etc. can open you up to playing better or at least enjoying what you are playing more. If this leads to more practice and exploration, then it is a win.

2. Getting a different style of bass - If you played P basses all your life and finally got a Jazz, the tone differences might make you explore something different. For me getting a Jazz made me try slapping and playing more melodically due to my perception of the "prettier" nature of the bass.

3. Getting a bass that sounds like your bass hero - Say you love Macca and get a Rick with flats, or Jamerson and get a P with flats, or Geddy and get a Jazz with Rotos....sure you won't play like them, but you might finally hear what you've been looking for all these years. That moment alone might push you to learn more, transcribe more, branch out more, etc.

For me, getting different types of basses sparked me to explore more bassists and styles. A P with flats made me try to learn some Chuck Rainey Steely Dan lines and Pino stuff. Getting a Jazz lead me to Rush songs and a deeper dive into John Paul Jones. Getting the basses didn't make me better, but they steered my practice and ear.

Upgrading to a more expensive bass never did anything more than lighten my wallet. In fact, I have gotten a few expensive basses in my past and always come back to more mid-level workhorse basses. If I picked up a Fodera, I'd still sound like crap.

I've always gone for tone and ease of playing first. I'm not much into the "fit and finish" camp. If the tuners work, the bridge holds, and the bass is built to play, I'm happy. I'm not one to fret over sub-par tuners, the micro details of a neck finish, or the millimeters of how low my set-up can go. I can feel rough fret ends if I check, but apparently my fretting hand doesn't feel them when I play so I don't notice that either.

I'll add to those who mentioned a new amp as well. Getting an amp that gives you a clear and easy to hear tone live will helped me learn to play cleaner and with less effort. I used to always watch pro guys on SNL or any Youtube vid and wondered how they sounded so clear with such little effort. A good amp or PA helped this significantly and that can be a huge improvement to your playing because you're no longer ham-fisting away, white knuckling your notes and farting out.

 

[BassGeekJack]

I'd say the two upgrades are almost mutually exclusive. Yes, higher end basses will have finer details, no sharp frets, better neck longevity, etc. but that makes up for less than 1% technique, I'd say. You can have spot-on technique on a $h!t bass and sound amazing, but you can't have poor technique on a boutique bass and sound amazing.

 

[CallMeAl]

Thanks everyone for contributing! This is a fun thread.

As I reflect on my personal goals, and try to put them into words, they are more mental/aural than physical. Ear training, predicting chord changes, playing old songs in new keys, singing, improvising walking lines, etc, etc.... so with that in mind, I would be better served investing in things like my headphones, headphone amp, play along software. Or good old fashioned lessons!!

If you're focused on a more traditional approach to playing, then almost anything works and instead it comes down to preferences in playability, tone, ergonomics,

This is me here. Not really interested in chords or soloing. But "fit and finish" do cross my mind, if it will be more comfortable, "playable"

Play the bass as they say...stop looking at talkbass...and play!

Nice reminder! Pretty sure I've told myself this on several occasions

My SX is a better bass because it has perfect fretwork now. So it's not about the price, it's about how polished the instrument really is, for me.

I've invested some time in this already. It's made a huge difference for sure.

Speaking for myself, I am not a believer of modifications at all. For me (and I know my opinion is an unpopular one), this kind of thing a complete waste of money and time.

I've realized my OP kind of sounded like I was talking about upgrading individual components. But I was talking about getting a nicer bass all together. Edited for clarity.

I do agree, if it ain't broke....

 

[NOVAX]

When I first picked them up -both my 4001 and dynabass- each revealed a riff or a lick or a run that elevated my chops. In my mind, that's human/instrument synergy.

 

[rashrader]

I’ve upgraded, downgraded, midgraded, regraded and ungraded.

It just doesn’t matter. I suck regardless.

 

[CallMeAl]

Upgrade can mean different things IMO. A few examples that stand out to me:

1. Getting a neck that is right for you - Sometimes a flatter radius, thicker neck, thinner neck, etc. can open you up to playing better or at least enjoying what you are playing more. If this leads to more practice and exploration, then it is a win.

2. Getting a different style of bass - If you played P basses all your life and finally got a Jazz, the tone differences might make you explore something different. For me getting a Jazz made me try slapping and playing more melodically due to my perception of the "prettier" nature of the bass.

3. Getting a bass that sounds like your bass hero - Say you love Macca and get a Rick with flats, or Jamerson and get a P with flats, or Geddy and get a Jazz with Rotos....sure you won't play like them, but you might finally hear what you've been looking for all these years. That moment alone might push you to learn more, transcribe more, branch out more, etc.

For me, getting different types of basses sparked me to explore more bassists and styles. A P with flats made me try to learn some Chuck Rainey Steely Dan lines and Pino stuff. Getting a Jazz lead me to Rush songs and a deeper dive into John Paul Jones. Getting the basses didn't make me better, but they steered my practice and ear.

Upgrading to a more expensive bass never did anything more than lighten my wallet. In fact, I have gotten a few expensive basses in my past and always come back to more mid-level workhorse basses. If I picked up a Fodera, I'd still sound like crap.

I've always gone for tone and ease of playing first. I'm not much into the "fit and finish" camp. If the tuners work, the bridge holds, and the bass is built to play, I'm happy. I'm not one to fret over sub-par tuners, the micro details of a neck finish, or the millimeters of how low my set-up can go. I can feel rough fret ends if I check, but apparently my fretting hand doesn't feel them when I play so I don't notice that either.

I'll add to those who mentioned a new amp as well. Getting an amp that gives you a clear and easy to hear tone live will helped me learn to play cleaner and with less effort. I used to always watch pro guys on SNL or any Youtube vid and wondered how they sounded so clear with such little effort. A good amp or PA helped this significantly and that can be a huge improvement to your playing because you're no longer ham-fisting away, white knuckling your notes and farting out.

Good points in there. I've just been through a host of cheap basses, and settled on what I like (P bass, Jazz neck) so maybe part of this is me gassing to treat myself to a nicer version of that.

I'm with you on most of the component details. I'm perfectly happy with my bent bridge and stock pickup. The neck however is one detail I always notice when I try nicer basses in the shops.

Definately looking at amps too. It strikes me as much more practical to focus on that before I buy a new bass.