When does it click in?

[DavC]

I totally agree with ... learn/work on " listening " ... gotta actually Hear what's going on ...
finger exercises are just that ... muscle memory training
scales/modes are theory and more muscle memory ... but hearing the Key/Chord center
I do agree with learning and playing along with songs ... helps you work on lots of stuff !! and it's fun ..

I've played piano since 1963 , bass/gtr/trumpet and others since the early 70's ... played full time 6 nights a week while working 6 days a week for a few decades ...

does it suddenly all just click ... I think bits and pieces will start to Click ... and as things start to Click , and you learn more songs/scales/chords/etc ... you'll start to develop your own voice and style ... more and more things will keep starting to make sense and feel/sound better ... !!

but ... after 50+ yrs of piano ... I still go back to some basic scales and exercises to make sure my technique stays pretty good ... still need to warm up , stretch a little ( arthritis is fun )

luckily , there's always new things to work on .!.. and I also agree with practicing technically challenging stuff before going to bed ... your mind will keep working on it ... !!!

 

[DavC]

and yes ... music is a language ... it is how we communicate to make music ...

I could read music before I could read writing .. !?

 

[mr.mow]

Join a band.. if you know where your notes are (vaguely is fine.. if someone says D.. you know where your D is right?), you'll quickly learn what of what you have learned is worth working on an what is frilly stuff that is a waste of time (some teachers spend a lot of time teaching pointless frilly stuff).
Being in a band gives you focus and direction.

 

[moody]

I'm going to agree with the majority. Play with others.

I had learned piano (to second grade I think) as a kid, had dabbled in guitar for a few years and learnt classical for a while. I bought a bass which I picked up a couple of times then promptly lent to a guy a sort of knew for a year (really). Got offered to play in a band because I owned a bass. Got it back from the friend two days before the first rehearsal. At that rehearsal I was told one thing. Play on the kick, mute on the snare. Most valuable lesson I ever got.

I think I clicked on that first rehearsal.

 

[DwaynieAD]

Music isn't clinical and you're taking a clinical approach. Have fun with it learn songs you like, play with some good dudes, have fun. That's when it clicks.

 

[svtb15]

Sometimes it doesnt click in for some people.. . then it becomes a hobby later on... Like they say. you gotta be in it to win it.

i say .. Play with people that are better than you....

 

[Ric5]

Playing/learning/practicing about a year now.

Taking weekly lesson with competent instructor.

Practice every day at least 30 minutes, and most often 1+ hours: scales, chords, learning fretboard, reading music, fingering exercises, playing simple songs, hand position. I use a metronome.

Definitely improving, slowly but surely. Some days I play pretty well and feel I'm advancing and other days it's not so great, but I understand this is a normal part of the learning process. Also, I understand different people progress at different rates.

My short term goals are to be able to read music competently, to be able to improvise a bit, to be able to move around the fretboard easily, to have good tone, and to stay in time when the going gets tough.

My question is, is there a time when it all comes together and I can consider myself no longer a beginner? I look forward to moving beyond the basics and focusing on refinement.

When I was learning a second language, the day arrived when I realized I was no longer translating what I heard into English, but rather was understanding what I heard in the second language. Similarly, I no longer had to think about grammar when I spoke, the words just came out. Is there a similar point with the bass where everything clicks in?

The next step is to join a band and rehearse with a band and then gig with a band ...

 

[Bassman Spiff]

Lots of excellent advice in this thread.

Remember, there is a big difference between playing notes and making music.
IMHO, the best way to accomplish that is to play with others. Once you start making music for the love of simply making music, things fall into place pretty quickly and the aha moments begin to click in.

What you are seeking is not a destination, rather it is the the journey itself. Enjoy it!

...just my $0.02-worth.

 

[the federalist]

As always, the response on this site is thoughtful and helpful. Really appreciate everyone's comments.

I fully expected the encouragement to play with others, play in a band, etc. Undoubtedly playing with other musicians would improve my playing. Here's the thing: I'm not young, so joining a band with young people is not in the cards. I have older acquaintances who get together to play guitar and I could join them, but their musical tastes and my musical tastes are not in line. I could live happily live the rest of my life without hearing another CCR or Lynard Skynard song, much less having to listen to them and me hack away at it. They're also into lengthy blues jams. While I fully recognize the utility of any type of live playing, the thought of blues jamming with other old men is a bit depressing (and I love the blues). Church is another possibility, but my church plays traditional hymns with an organist and a vocalist exclusively, so no bass needed there.

My work is math oriented, so music theory fascinates me, as do patterns on the fretboard. This may lead to an over emphasis on scales, modes and chord construction, but I enjoy it. When I started, I worked almost exclusively on learning and playing songs I like. I ended up being able to play the songs, and my fingering improved, but I was learning zero in the way of improvisation, hence the lessons.

My teacher is a well-known bassist in Atlanta and has a full teaching schedule. He encourages a mix of theory, exercises and song playing. He also strongly suggested playing with others, but he knows I'm not so inclined. What he has told me is that when he performs or records he's often given a key or chord progression and is expected to deliver the goods with only that direction. He's demonstrated many times how he does it, and it sure sounds musical.

All of us have different musical aspirations, and I'm the first to admit that mine are out of the mainstream. So perhaps my journey will have bigger or different bumps than most. Playing bass has given me a deeper appreciation of music and tremendous respect for the instrument and those who play well. I'm delighted when I learn a new song, or get better at any aspect of playing. Hope it keeps coming.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts.

 

[BAG]

I was mucking around playing some lead uke for a local ukulele group and when the u-bass player left I was the only one that could really play the uke and guitar to any decent level so I was asked to play bass. All I knew was some basic bass chord shapes and scales I knew from guitar so I used a combination of these and occasionally tab or just listening to the originals of the songs we were playing to find something that sounded good. It doesn't matter to me if it's not the same as the original, as long as it suits the song and the instruments i'm playing with. I play more fills and upper register with the ukes as it fits in well but play more lower register and less fills with the two guitar group.

I feel I was lucky to be able to try different things and not worry too much about screwing up with them as it was very rarely noticed due to the uke players stuffing up with regularity. I progressed very quickly to the point that I am now playing bass quite well in three different groups. It is only now just over a year of playing that I am really starting to get into different techniques and learning more inversions etc.

As many have said, jam along with songs as much as you can but more importantly, jam with other musicians, even if it's just one acoustic guitar and you on bass. There's nothing like playing real music for you to find what works and what doesn't and also to find your own sound or style. You can know stacks of theory and be able to read music perfectly and still be a crap musician. (i'm not saying you are crap.....but have met many that concentrate too much on theory and reading and have no feel)

 

[osonu]

If you're enjoying what you're doing, then no problem! You may want to consider finding a church that uses a band as a way to add another element to your playing. At my church bass players seem to always be in short supply- they even took me! I have to say, I played trumpet much the way you seem to be approaching bass- not wanting to play with others on what I was good at (classical) and hoping to learn to improvise, etc. without playing with others because I didn't feel ready, and it just stopped being fun- too many notes, not enough music.

I'm having more fun on bass even though, technically I'm not near as good as I was on trumpet- yet

 

[Jughead6]

I have a full time job, family, household maintenance, pets, taxes etc. etc. etc. to make my life miserable. Learning scales would push me over the edge. For me, bass is enjoyable because I can pretend that rules don't apply. I just pick up a bass and play the songs on my bands set-list or anything cool I have heard on the radio. And I don't try to emulate others - I put my own interpretation on songs. That way, I avoid the pass-or-fail judgements that seem to apply in almost every other facet of life. Being in an amateur band is great fun, and I like to think it has made me a better listener and "team player" (I wonder if the enjoyment would be any less in a professional band..?).

Your teacher would probably say my technique is cr@p, but... meh... I understand and accept that I will never be a studio/session musician. I am just content to have found a hobby that I can enjoy for the rest of my life.

$0.02. Whatever works for you, dude. If scales don't float your boat... don't play them!

 

[interp]

Playing/learning/practicing about a year now.

Taking weekly lesson with competent instructor.

Practice every day at least 30 minutes, and most often 1+ hours: scales, chords, learning fretboard, reading music, fingering exercises, playing simple songs, hand position. I use a metronome.

Definitely improving, slowly but surely. Some days I play pretty well and feel I'm advancing and other days it's not so great, but I understand this is a normal part of the learning process. Also, I understand different people progress at different rates.

My short term goals are to be able to read music competently, to be able to improvise a bit, to be able to move around the fretboard easily, to have good tone, and to stay in time when the going gets tough.

My question is, is there a time when it all comes together and I can consider myself no longer a beginner? I look forward to moving beyond the basics and focusing on refinement.

When I was learning a second language, the day arrived when I realized I was no longer translating what I heard into English, but rather was understanding what I heard in the second language. Similarly, I no longer had to think about grammar when I spoke, the words just came out. Is there a similar point with the bass where everything clicks in?

As a long-time bass player and language professional I can especially relate to your experience.
Although my introduction to playing bass was much less structured and disciplined than yours it took me about four or five years before I no longer felt like a beginner. Then I started getting more seriously into theory, harmony, technique, etc. and realized that I was nonetheless still a beginner. To this day, I feel that way.

I learned Russian in a very structured environment. Six hours a day, five days a week for a year, with native speaking instructors. After graduating at the head of my class I could carry on basic conversations, but not on a professional level. That took several more years of intensive work and experience, including working in a Russian-speaking environment and numerous visits to Russia. After 42 years of constant work as a translator and interpreter at very high levels I STILL feel like a beginner.

And that is my point: you should cultivate the feeling of being a beginner. We all are and will remain so.

 

[fearceol]

Playing/learning/practicing about a year now.
Definitely improving, slowly but surely.

Seems to me that the one thing you need to concentrate on is......PATIENCE !!!

 

[moody]

As always, the response on this site is thoughtful and helpful. Really appreciate everyone's comments.

I fully expected the encouragement to play with others, play in a band, etc. Undoubtedly playing with other musicians would improve my playing. Here's the thing: I'm not young, so joining a band with young people is not in the cards. I have older acquaintances who get together to play guitar and I could join them, but their musical tastes and my musical tastes are not in line. I could live happily live the rest of my life without hearing another CCR or Lynard Skynard song, much less having to listen to them and me hack away at it. They're also into lengthy blues jams. While I fully recognize the utility of any type of live playing, the thought of blues jamming with other old men is a bit depressing (and I love the blues). Church is another possibility, but my church plays traditional hymns with an organist and a vocalist exclusively, so no bass needed there.

Regardless of not being your ideal taste, I say have a go at the CCR and skynard. It's incredible how much you can enjoy playing music you hate.

It doesn't have to be for a great length of time, just a bit to get the feel of it.

 

[el murdoque]

The term 'beginner' is not really defined. Some may say as soon as you know which hand goes where and are able to play punkrock you're not a beginner any more.
Some might say that stage is reached when you can play the Realbook from cover to cover.

 

[basslayer]

Playing/learning/practicing about a year now.

Taking weekly lesson with competent instructor.

Practice every day at least 30 minutes, and most often 1+ hours: scales, chords, learning fretboard, reading music, fingering exercises, playing simple songs, hand position. I use a metronome.

Definitely improving, slowly but surely. Some days I play pretty well and feel I'm advancing and other days it's not so great, but I understand this is a normal part of the learning process. Also, I understand different people progress at different rates.

My short term goals are to be able to read music competently, to be able to improvise a bit, to be able to move around the fretboard easily, to have good tone, and to stay in time when the going gets tough.

My question is, is there a time when it all comes together and I can consider myself no longer a beginner? I look forward to moving beyond the basics and focusing on refinement.

When I was learning a second language, the day arrived when I realized I was no longer translating what I heard into English, but rather was understanding what I heard in the second language. Similarly, I no longer had to think about grammar when I spoke, the words just came out. Is there a similar point with the bass where everything clicks in?

Similar to your language experience, you will notice one day that while you don't renege the moment it all changed, you will find that you are able to express ideas on the instrument AND you have ideas you feel are worthy of being shared.

 

[Davo-LON]

I would add the following to what's been said.

One incredibly useful skill is the ability to hear what chord, or relative chord is being played. So if you play a song with other musicians all you need to know is the main key, say C major. Then learning the intervals 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc means that when the chord changes you can recognise the interval and play accordingly. This is so incredibly useful that for me it should be the main focus of practice. In learning the interval and relative chords you also tap into music theory and understand how songs are structured.

If all you knew was where the notes are on the bass and you had the above interval-recognition skill - you could walk in on almost any gig/band practice and start playing.

You can practice this easily by listening to childrens songs (because they are simple and repetitive) or simple pop songs and start playing along.

This for me is the most fundamental skill and I'm annoyed it took me so long to acquire it.

Davo

 

[Ewo]

Lotsa good advice, above, so +1 about playing with other people. Y'know, OP, even if your musical taste doesn't align with the folks you can jam with (like, even if CCR and Skynrd aren't your cuppa tea), the experience is extremely valuable. It'll teach you about making music _with other people_ and that's something you don't learn by practicing with a metronome.

Got one other suggestion relating to the music as language thing. You might play along with recordings, but not play basslines. Play melodic lines--like cop horn parts, or invent horn parts, or maybe find some lines in the inside parts of keyboard pads running the chord changes, steal riffs from a nice guitar or sax solo, find some chord voicings on the bass that work for comping. I spend part of my 'shed time doing that these days (been playing a looooong time) and it's a fun change of pace, and def sharpens my ear for melodic lines. All of that immediately benefits my basslines, of course--because I'm _hearing_ the music in more depth.

 

[jthisdell]

Everyone is different. I feel you need to understand theory, scales, etc. and not focus much on specific songs. My instructor chose songs that taught you something about theory, song structure, etc. as well as some easier pieces. Bass is primarily an accompaniment instrument so you need to know how to adapt and pick up songs really quickly and that is where the theory comes in. I get really frustrated with guitarists who know a lot of songs but don't know any theory and have no idea why they play a certain chord, they just know to play it. When I talk even a little theory my band mates just kind of stare at me.

One thing I do a lot is when I work on scales I will pick a key, say Gmaj, and then work through each of the scales of the chords in that key. So Gmaj, Amin, Bmin, Cmaj, Dmaj, Emin, F#min, etc. And sometimes just play like I, III, IV up and down for each of these or I, VII, VI, V and back up. Do this up and down through all the chords in the key. Then do another key, such as Amin and do the same. When I was younger I would just do scales up and down the fretboard, such as Emi,, Fmin, Gb min, Gmin, Ab min, etc. This is useful for muscle training but not nearly as much for ear training and musical knowledge. (Hope this makes sense.)

I have always been jealous that some people seem to pick up instruments quickly, me, not so fast. But I stuck to it long enough to get decent.

The odd thing is that I took like a nearly 20 year break and when I came back I saw things a lot differently and understand theory, etc much better now. Somehow the back of my mind never stopped thinking about it even though I didn't even have an instrument in the house.