When should you start getting paid?

[Skitch it!]

"All Original Metal Hardcore band" is code for "never get paid".

Really.

Hate to break it to you.

+1 This.

I don't know what the U.S scene is like, here originals almost never get paid, if ever.

 

[bluewine]

+1 This.

I don't know what the U.S scene is like, here originals almost never get paid, if ever.

All originals music, metal, pop rock, rock whatever is code for you almost never get paid.

It's to the point where people don't what to hear good originals, they want to hear Brick House. Does it get any lamer than that?

 

[prd004]

I don't know what the U.S scene is like, here originals almost never get paid, if ever.

Exactly! Sometimes you can get paid for originals, but it's like finding a unicorn, you hear about them but you rarely see one!

Decide what is more important to you, money or writing music. If it's money you're after, join or start a cover band, learn a bunch of lame tunes like Mustang Sally and Play That Funky Music, and go out and make some cash.

If it's the writing and the creative process that moves you, keep doing what you want to do and let money be dammned. Play wherever and whenever you can!

 

[bluewine]

I've struggled with the same question lately. I'm 17 years old and I haven't done a single gig from where I would've gotten dough

It's a young mans game, if you can stay 17 for the next 30 years you will make it to the big time.

 

[bluewine]

Exactly! Sometimes you can get paid for originals, but it's like finding a unicorn, you hear about them but you rarely see one!

Decide what is more important to you, money or writing music. If it's money you're after, join or start a cover band, learn a bunch of lame tunes like Mustang Sally and Play That Funky Music, and go out and make some cash.

If it's the writing and the creative process that moves you, keep doing what you want to do and let money be dammned. Play wherever and whenever you can!

It has to be fun.For some of us, playing covers is fun and for some, only orignals are fun.

For me their is also a different culture. No offence but people in originals bands seem cooler to me.

 

[Jeb]

Play covers to get paid. There are too many noobs who will provide free entertainment just for a chance to get "heard", not caring what that does for the rest of the musicians who have some self-respect and believe that they should be compensated. Back in the day, it was the venues responsibility to "put butts on barstools", through advertising and the like. Now, they know the next band down the line will wh**e themselves out thinking they are gonna get a record deal. Sorry if I sound bitter, but I've been doing this for 15 years and have never played a show for free. Because of this, I've watched much crappier bands/people get the gig because they were accepting of the fact that they haven't worked hard enough on their craft to be paid for it.

I'm with M Sterling here. You get paid when you contract a set and agreed upon amount. Your band has to play what people who spend money want to hear. Venues are "for-profit." Man, they aren't there to provide you a stage if your material sucks. I've said this several times before on this forum but most original music is just very, very bad. No one wants to hear something that appeals only to you. Unless you have great songs, you don't get paid. The best music has already been recorded, it seems. Players who can play and cover pop music well (and who have great vocals) work for payouts. Original music players, who have poor material that appeals to them only, don't.

 

[Rockmusician]

Originally Posted by IbanezBass69
Shouldn't metal bands be just as deserving of pay as any other genre of music?

NO! Not if they SUCK!. That is true for any bands. First of all, you have to be honest with yourself and understand that you are probably not as good as you think you are. I know that this is very hard to do. Even if you are good, you have to market yourself to the right audience and the right clubs. If you are good and can draw, you will make money.

 

[Skitch it!]

Get a cover band on the side, make your arrangements and play with both, if you want some monetary recompense for your playing. Most if not all of the well known guy's I worked with in London had 2 -4 different projects on the go all the time.

 

[bluewine]

I'm with M Sterling here. You get paid when you contract a set and agreed upon amount. Your band has to play what people who spend money want to hear. Venues are "for-profit." Man, they aren't there to provide you a stage if your material sucks. I've said this several times before on this forum but most original music is just very, very bad. No one wants to hear something that appeals only to you. Unless you have great songs, you don't get paid. The best music has already been recorded, it seems. Players who can play and cover pop music well (and who have great vocals) work for payouts. Original music players, who have poor material that appeals to them only, don't.

I am in an originals band and our material is better than most covers. It's so good that you might think were playing covers.

 

[Jeb]

I am in an originals band and our material is better than most covers.

Post it so I can hear and I'll tell you what I think. C'mon blue, you know better than that.

 

[lokikallas]

Metal or Polka, it doesn't really matter to a bar. What matters is the profits they pull in from liquor sales. Sometimes a bar tries to make money off the cover, but I've found that a cover is often the band pay or a percentage thereof. A percentage of the bar is common, as is a flat rate. Most often as an opening band, you shouldn't expect one dime. You should expect a stage to share your music on. If the bar see's that your band can bring in it's own crowd of heavy drinking (profit) fans, and generally keep the place hopping, then you have a good chance of them saying yes to booking you as a headliner. Sometimes you play Co-headlining gigs, where you and another band split the pot. I've even seen bars ask the people at the door who they are there to see. Unless you are being hired by a promoter, the bottom line is booze sales. In a metal band, I've played awesome sets to empty rooms, made zero dollars, but been proud of my work. I've also played packed houses, didn't expect a dime, and yet when the night was over the owner loved us so much he threw us some of the nights profit. When your in a metal band, don't expect to make a living. Period. Unless you are exceptional and get picked up for a record deal, or generate such buzz that strangers are coming to check you out, it doesn't matter how many or for how long you've been playing shows. Look at a guy like Richard Christy. He played drums in Death, and Iced Earth. He is a world class musician, but he loves music that is very extreme, and niche. Thus, once he got home from his world wide touring, he went back to working as an electrician. Yes, part of that is the deals that you make, but if you are strictly playing music that is non-commercial, then you are probably not going to ever see commercial success. You should be into the metal/hardcore scene to express yourself, have fun, and create. Anything else is icing on the cake. If you want to make a living as a musician, you might have to be involved with several different bands/projects. Just my opinion/experience!

 

[bolophonic]

I see a lot of people responding who really do not understand the economics of hardcore shows at all. Putting on a hardcore show has almost zero similarity to the house bar band scene that gets referenced on here so frequently as the end-all, be-all of musicianship. Being a genre geared mainly to the youth, the best hardcore shows are all ages events, no question. Many of these types of shows are held in non-bar venues. There is no built-in crowd in that scene. You don't just go up to a bar owner and ask to start playing that kind of music to their regulars on a Saturday night. In order to properly put those shows on, you have to promote them relentlessly by yourself, book shows with really motivated bands, maintain your scene, and you run the door yourself. Up-and-comers get tacked on to long bills with 20-30 minute sets and you rock it for free until you can do the shows yourself.

That never seems to stop the dudes who come in and talk about how much they get paid for their 9 hour blues jams, though.

 

[IbanezBass69]

Lots of good stuff here guys! One question I saw brought up is age. I myself am 20, but the band in question is a bunch of high school kids, with the oldest member being 17. And, I guess thinking about it, I am not 100% certain if they booked a bar, or a non-bar type venue. I just never asked too far into it I guess. So, I suppose some answers may change from that! Keep the words coming guys!

 

[bluewine]

Post it so I can hear and I'll tell you what I think. C'mon blue, you know better than that.

Me and Jeb made peace, he actually liked our originals.

Thanks for the support Jeb we need it.

We have good solid original material and around here it's hard for us to break away from the the stereotype.

Most people asume original material is bad cause most of it is.

 

[Jeb]

bluewine and his band do have good material. I listened and smiled. The music has familiar hooks, pleasing melody and good vocals. These are songs that could be put into a cover band's material and introduced after they get a good response (or not if otherwise). And then you go from there.

Far cry from teenage metal "I want to be a star!" type crap that I've become familiar with. And in response to bolophonic's reference to "economics," I'll just say that if you have good material that appeals to a broad range of people (as I suspect blue does with that band and those songs), you're already ahead of the game. If you cater to the all ages venues and share the stage with other like bands? Well,... you don't get paid.

 

[MNAirHead]

Metal is relevant...

In our midwest scene, country and rock are what sell beer.. adult contemporary sells desrets and appetizers.

Tim

 

[bluewine]

bluewine and his band do have good material. I listened and smiled. The music has familiar hooks, pleasing melody and good vocals. These are songs that could be put into a cover band's material and introduced after they get a good response (or not if otherwise). And then you go from there.

Far cry from teenage metal "I want to be a star!" type crap that I've become familiar with. And in response to bolophonic's reference to "economics," I'll just say that if you have good material that appeals to a broad range of people (as I suspect blue does with that band and those songs), you're already ahead of the game. If you cater to the all ages venues and share the stage with other like bands? Well,... you don't get paid.

Thanks Jeb,

I have seen a lot of TBer's bands from their web-sites and Face Book pages that would blow our band away.

We will not be everyones cup of tea.As a band we all believe in what we have to sell.We think the product is good.

We still have the same pains as any originals band.

• Buiding a Following

• Finding Appropriate Gigs

We play mostly the self contained rooms, it's a 10.00 show so we have to work hard at getting every single person we can to that show. We have a lot of expenses because we pay our own sound and lighting techs and the house techs.

We are hoping to get a few large crowd festival shows this summer.