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when to start asking for pay per gig
- Thread starter Shawn Cav
- Start date
I think that's a good rule of thumb. If the OP is backing some singer-songwriter at an open mic or something, no he won't get paid. But for gigs where others are getting paid, there's no reason for him to be the chump whose time isn't valuable.
Some practical advice: When you are asked to play, simply ask "What does the gig pay?" That will immediately put the ball in their court. Unless they're totally shameless (or the band is not getting anything) they're unlikely to ask you to play for free.
You're a bass player. A quality bass player is extremely hard to find, and there should be competition for your skills.
Forget exposure at this point. Unless you're in an area where finding any musicians is difficult, start demanding to be paid for all gigs (except perhaps the occasional benefit for charity). Get paid. Demand to get paid as much as the other band members.
If you aren't in high demand when you start charging for your work (and you should start charging ASAP), then maybe you need to work on your chops. Otherwise, just get paid. You won't have too many problems finding a good situation.
Forget exposure at this point. Unless you're in an area where finding any musicians is difficult, start demanding to be paid for all gigs (except perhaps the occasional benefit for charity). Get paid. Demand to get paid as much as the other band members.
If you aren't in high demand when you start charging for your work (and you should start charging ASAP), then maybe you need to work on your chops. Otherwise, just get paid. You won't have too many problems finding a good situation.
Maybe, on a one night's worth of work basis. But when my band gets paid I feel I am not just getting compensated for that night, but also the free showcase gigs, promotional time, full band rehearsals, etc. etc. I put in to make the band successful enough to land the gig in question. If you look at it that way NO sub did as much to get that gig as I did.......
On another note, how long before someone makes the tired "a plumber would never work for free for exposure" analogy?
If I take a fill-in gig, I am functioning as a contractor. Contractors get paid. The above, of course, assumes that the bandleader has a need (bass player) for a paying gig and you're filling that need. Don't be afraid to ask for what you're worth.
Right ... but the band can't go on without that sub. I don't work for a share of anything, I work for an agreed upon amount. If a full share of the gig is less than my rate, I'll often accept that because the guys who hire me are usually friends, and will send more work my way. If a full share is more than what I ask for the gig then so be it ... I got mine.
- May 30, 2000
- 4,707
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- Creator of: iGigBook Sheet Music Manager
jive1
Commercial User
I just figured I'd mention, even when I did get paid as a sub, I still got mention and/or an introduction. It seems sad that you have to forgo getting paid to get your props. It doesn't have to be a one or the other thing, you can have both.
I'll have to agree with the majority. The only thing likely being exposed is your willingness to play for free. The first thing I always ask when asked to sub is how much. If it's something I really want to do I may play a little cheaper than normal, but as someone else said, if they are getting paid, I'm getting paid.
I do a fair amount of work as a sub. In my view, I've done quite a lot to get myself to the point where I can jump into a band at the last minute and help them sound great...
10 years of music lessons as a kid
40+ years of practicing, developing my chops and repertoire
My share of rehearsals and "dues paying" gigs
While you're busy rehearsing with your band, I'm at home practicing to play with your band when you need a sub.
I don't doubt it. But assuming all things are equal, the band members would be home practicing to improve themselves musically and in time ADDITION to that, working to advance the band. And (again assuming all things are equal) each member might have put just as much time into their craft in the past as you.
That's certainly possible. I won't say that I spend an equal quantity of time as those for whom I sub, only that I've made my investments and the band has made theirs. To some extent, I've bet my musical "career" on subbing being a valuable skill in its own right, whereas the permanent members of a band are betting on their participation in the band producing future value. It's a difference between short-term and long-term gratification. For instance while I expect to be paid on the spot, I never expect a band to share with me the proceeds from merch sales, recordings, or the future payoff of "making it." If a band is choosing to put off present profits for the sake of future profits, that's their choice but it doesn't involve me.
And I should make another disclaimer: I don't gouge bands, or engage in hardball negotiation. The genres that I play (mostly jazz) tend to have unwritten rules about paying subs, so that I don't really even have to ask. I don't know what I'd do if I played rock 'n' roll etc.
That letter reminds me of a funny scenario that I saw play out. This past summer, a local venue decided to start a weekly BOTB competition. The award for winning? Being able to book a paying gig at the place. While a lot of bands would like to play that room, it's not some uber-exclusive venue.
Anyways, the venue advertised the BOTB on Craigslist. Someone posted a satirical advertisement in response saying that all of the local bars should engage in a "Battle of the Brews" contest. The gist was that all local watering holes could give free drinks to the poster's contingent of friends who would vote on the best beer and then they'd make that their preferred drinking spot for one night. I wish I saved the ad, because it was absolutely hilarious.
Ironically, one of my good friend's band won the BOTB. Although I do give the venue credit; judging was based on the opinions of some credible people (e.g., studio and small label owners) rather than a popularity contest.
I definitely agree. Although I've generally taken an equal cut for sub work, I don't think it's unreasonable to quote a flat rate for a sub job with a take it or leave it approach. How important is the gig for the contracting performer? How much do you need the work? If the answers are "Very important" and "Not much," then a flat rate is the way to go, IMO.
I've done fill-in gigs where I demanded to be paid more than anyone else. Hey, not my fault they need a bass player on short notice and their gig doesn't pay squat. Never ever in a million years would I do it for free unless it was my own band where I had a goal to get paid really well eventually.
Never ever, EVER play for free, unless you're doing something for charity. No amount of exposure is worth free gigs, especially one-off's. You have to use valuable time to learn the setlist, drive X amount of miles to get to the venue, set up, actually play the gig, break down, and drive back. Time is money. Period.
I tend to get paid for sub gigs too. But I think that overturning the established economics of a local scene or genre is going to be an uphill battle if you're already immersed in that scene. I agree with "if anybody gets paid then so do I," but most bands don't really get paid, when you consider the costs and time involved for gear, rehearsals, promotion, transportation, setup, etc.
I think that in order to get into paid sub work, you have to find a scene / genre that's capable of producing paid work in the first place, and breaking into that scene may involve expanding your musical interests and/or upping your game.
I think that in order to get into paid sub work, you have to find a scene / genre that's capable of producing paid work in the first place, and breaking into that scene may involve expanding your musical interests and/or upping your game.
