I've played through plenty of 215s, and tons of 810s - and I can tell you that you're flat out wrong... A typical 215 will pretty much match a typical 810 for volume, in my experience...
- georgestrings
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Which 810?
- Thread starter No Great Loss
- Start date
I've played through plenty of 215s, and tons of 810s - and I can tell you that you're flat out wrong... A typical 215 will pretty much match a typical 810 for volume, in my experience...
- georgestrings
Look..it's not so much the speaker surface area. So an 810 has as much as 3 15's. The point is more in how those 810's transition, from low to highs, and back. My 810 pumps tons more volume, db, than my 2 15's ever thought of. The 2 15 cabs were actually rated 4-5 db more effecient, though. Theoretically, they should have blown the 810 out of the water. But they didn't, they just sounded like muddy drivers, sort of an undefined mess. Part of the perception of volume is the dynamics and the frequency transitions that you hear. A cab that can play from 38hz-7Khz is going to be perceived as louder than a cab that plays from 28hz-2K...at least in my and my bandmates experiences. For shear volume, the 2 Carvin 810 idea sounds pretty damn good to me... that'll throw a bass bitch slap down on anybody!
Years ago I owned several Carvin cabinets too. They were the first "serious" pieces of bass gear that I worked towards buying. At the time I was happy with them, they got the job done, etc. Now, having owned lots of different cabinets and amplifiers, I can honestly say that the Carvin stuff was mid-grade. Not bad, but not exceptional either. So, in my opinion, you have two options regarding speaker cabs. Either replace all the speakers in the cabs with some high-end drivers like Eminence or Eden, or sell what you have and put some money into a better speaker cab altogether. As I've already mentioned, my vote goes to the SWR Megoliath. I simply cannot say enough good things about this cab.
Your power amplifier, the Crown XS500, should be solid. Running it bridged into a 4ohm 8x10 cabinet will get you 1600 watts, plenty enough to raise some hell. In fact, your whole amp setup seems great. I can't imagine that upgrading to high quality cabs won't take care of your needs. Good luck!
18's aren't good for everything, espcially if your EQ is mid heavy. They're subwoofers, meant to produce fundamentals, and don;t tend to "cut through" much of anything. Theyre' best used in sparse mixes. If you're doing metal, I wouldn't think it would work too well.
Carvin cab construction is good and solid (at least the ones I have).
Replacing the drivers with ones which will outclass most commerical offerings in bass cabs is def. a good approach
There was another thread where an 18sound 10 inch was recommended as a hideously efficient:
http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=224
Link Removed
The midrange version may crap out full range.
Loading your 410 up with extra efficient drivers should help a lot.
With 18's/15's running as subs....I've found one is never quite enough - 2 has always seemed a lot better.
Also, 18's can kick out a lot of low end but this will not be percieved as cut. It may blow past you and hit people through the wall in the toilet
There are some efficient midrangey 18's though.....I think one of the peavey black widows is known for this.
Biamping is pain on the the rack size front but works... rolling off everything under 80hz to a single efficient 210 can really make it loud as hell when hit with a 1000 watts..... you'll need a couple of 18s/15's just to keep up with it.
A dirty overdriven tone can help a lot as well, as well as tons of limiting.
There are different approaches to being heard and the guys I've seen playing 810s can certainly hit you in the chest....but theres a lack of deeper low end. Going 'under' the guitars with at least a couple of 18's/15s subs and having plenty of cut where the guitars are dipped will also work.
The Emminence 3015 neo driver on paper is very loud as well (100db)...maybe slap 2 of these in one of your 215 cabs.
410 + 215 with efficient drivers should do the trick. Lay the 215 on its side on the bottom.
Replacing the drivers with ones which will outclass most commerical offerings in bass cabs is def. a good approach
There was another thread where an 18sound 10 inch was recommended as a hideously efficient:
http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=224
Link Removed
The midrange version may crap out full range.
Loading your 410 up with extra efficient drivers should help a lot.
With 18's/15's running as subs....I've found one is never quite enough - 2 has always seemed a lot better.
Also, 18's can kick out a lot of low end but this will not be percieved as cut. It may blow past you and hit people through the wall in the toilet
There are some efficient midrangey 18's though.....I think one of the peavey black widows is known for this.
Biamping is pain on the the rack size front but works... rolling off everything under 80hz to a single efficient 210 can really make it loud as hell when hit with a 1000 watts..... you'll need a couple of 18s/15's just to keep up with it.
A dirty overdriven tone can help a lot as well, as well as tons of limiting.
There are different approaches to being heard and the guys I've seen playing 810s can certainly hit you in the chest....but theres a lack of deeper low end. Going 'under' the guitars with at least a couple of 18's/15s subs and having plenty of cut where the guitars are dipped will also work.
The Emminence 3015 neo driver on paper is very loud as well (100db)...maybe slap 2 of these in one of your 215 cabs.
410 + 215 with efficient drivers should do the trick. Lay the 215 on its side on the bottom.
high sound pressure levels in the low end don't always seem that loud, depending on where you are in the room.
I was running a couple of 18's previously (with a 210 for highs), and in front of the stack it didn't seem too bassy.....but sitting where my drummer was in the corner of the room and someone else playing the bass.....
--- they hit hard. Standing waves the culprit I assume.
An 810 on top of an 18 might work quite well, and the 810 will be fully up to ear height as well ---- I've found this makes lots of difference at least from a personal monitoring point of view.
I was running a couple of 18's previously (with a 210 for highs), and in front of the stack it didn't seem too bassy.....but sitting where my drummer was in the corner of the room and someone else playing the bass.....
--- they hit hard. Standing waves the culprit I assume.An 810 on top of an 18 might work quite well, and the 810 will be fully up to ear height as well ---- I've found this makes lots of difference at least from a personal monitoring point of view.
+1 for SWR
They are voiced for more mid frequency response. SWR has always had a rep for honky sounding cabs. In the case of a metal band, perfect. It will cut through like a chainsaw. You pretty much cant go wrong with any 8-10" cab. Ashdown would be my second suggestion condsidering your price range.
Next, what about a DR bass or LDS custom? Talk to either of the guys at the aformentioned companies and tell them your problem and price range. These guys are cabinet geniuses that have been building specific cabs for specific uses almost all their lives. As long as you wouldn't mind taking a hit on the resale value, you cant really go wrong with that suggestion...though, you do have to wait while they build it. In the mean time, your 4-10 + 2-15 setup can work. It will be worth the wait
They are voiced for more mid frequency response. SWR has always had a rep for honky sounding cabs. In the case of a metal band, perfect. It will cut through like a chainsaw. You pretty much cant go wrong with any 8-10" cab. Ashdown would be my second suggestion condsidering your price range.
Next, what about a DR bass or LDS custom? Talk to either of the guys at the aformentioned companies and tell them your problem and price range. These guys are cabinet geniuses that have been building specific cabs for specific uses almost all their lives. As long as you wouldn't mind taking a hit on the resale value, you cant really go wrong with that suggestion...though, you do have to wait while they build it. In the mean time, your 4-10 + 2-15 setup can work. It will be worth the wait
A 2x15 plus 4x10 is a standard hard rock / lite metal setup. You can see exactly that rig in early Soundgarden videos. It's louder than a single 8x10, so I would scrap the idea of a single 8x10 cab no matter who makes it.
It's not, for solid state watts. With both cabs combined that's only about 2/3 as loud as a 300 watt SVT rig. And you can throw your efficiency ratings out the window because they're measured at 1k.
I'd recommend the Schroeder 210212. Sounds like a 2x15 plus 4x10, only smaller, lighter, and louder. And you can bridge your Crown for the full 1600 watts into a single cab.
If he stuck a compressor in there it would be alot louder than an SVT.
Also, im struggling to find why you think that 400 watts to one cab, 500 to another, is only 66% the volume of 150 watts to each cab. . . .
People sometimes get a little carried away with the tube/SS comparisons!
Because when you dime a tube amp, it can exceed its power rating while still maintaining usable tone.
Well, not by much really, not at all.
You run it along close to it's limits and it still has a useable tone, thats the difference between soft and hard clipping. Use a compressor and you can do the same with a SS amp.
You run it along close to it's limits and it still has a useable tone, thats the difference between soft and hard clipping. Use a compressor and you can do the same with a SS amp.
sam, it's dave from sim's/the weaker sister. and for the other guys, i'm the one that told him he wasn't loud enough that night. i really doubt you need to switch from what you have to an 810. justin and chris are nowhere near as loud as justin and mbudi and i don't go past 1 o'clock on my amp and the comment i get is that i need to turn down. a couple of things you can do: get a hold of me and run your amp through my cabs and see how it sounds. the ampegs aren't the most efficient cabs on the planet, but they definitely work for me. secondly, let me get a look at your eqing and settings on your comp, etc. maybe i can offer some suggestions. and lastly, i am kind of dissapointed you came to an internet forum for advice when all you had to do was pick up a phone or stop by the bar. 
I don't know, I have the ampeg SVT-CL and my friend has the 4-pro. We swapped heads and/or play eath other's set ups all the time, and unless my friend adds a bunch of speakers to the equation, his amp is really louder than mine. that's 300 tube watts compared to 1200 (or is it 900?) SS watts.
I've got a tube amp (SVT-II) and SS amp (Peavey Firebass). The SVT is 300 watts, the Firebass is 425 (IIRC at 4 ohms).
The difference in volume between them is minimal and I can compensate by adding a compressor.
With the 4-pro it depends how you use the amp, don't think you can mono bridge it (giving most power) to multiple cabs (possibly wrong though.)
The difference in volume between them is minimal and I can compensate by adding a compressor.
With the 4-pro it depends how you use the amp, don't think you can mono bridge it (giving most power) to multiple cabs (possibly wrong though.)
we both use my 810 and we both play StingRays, and our EQ is very similar. So maybe your Firebass is just a badass, but i think it's the exception and not the rule. The 350x SWR amp that I had before I got the SVT was miles quieter, and it was 350 watts.
I have first hand experience with the Carvin 4x10 and 1x18. It was my main rig for a few years.
I always ran them full range. The mids were too scooped when I bi-amped. I don't know if it was really louder run full range, but my perception was that it was louder.
I don't think they were the most efficient cabinets, but they kept up even with my 200 watt amp. IMHO, the 18 was a little louder than the 4x10--my 4x10 was a sealed cab.
With your amp, you should have no problems cutting through with these cabinets. Could there be something wrong with the 1x18? Maybe a bad contact or wiring? Is is possible the 2 cabinets are out of phase?
good luck
Ben
Good luck No Great Loss. I think hitting Dave up before you buy anything is your best bet.
Jonathan
Jonathan
I did some quick adding up and found that it doesn't take 6 15" to push the same amount of air as an 810
It takes 5 15" to push around about the same as an 810
Hears the figures:
1x15" = 23.56 squared"
6x15" = 141.36 squared"
1x10" = 15.71 squared"
8x10" = 125.68 squared"
If you could find an acoustic 301 cabinet (Folded 1x18) or similar cab, you might cut through. those things don't seem loud up close, but the people 30' away will feel differently
I think the issue is split between the Crown amplifier and the efficiency of the Carvin cabs. I've used both xs and xls series Crown amps, and I was always pushing them up to clipping against a 2 raging 5150 half stacks and a strong drummer even through my Megoliath... seems they're underpowered for their ratings at least in the realm of bass applications...
Here's the simplicity: if you want to keep your rack gear, put it in front of a GK 1001RB-II. Get the GK used for around $500-600. Single cab solution: Ampeg 810e. Plenty of Ampegs moving used for about $500-800. Other fine brands of 8x10s are out there, they're just usually less common to find used. Ditch the crown.
It's where I'm at right now only I use a pedal board for my preamp stuff... the headroom is the most i've ever had w/ the GK... even beats my SVT-IIpro.
Here's the simplicity: if you want to keep your rack gear, put it in front of a GK 1001RB-II. Get the GK used for around $500-600. Single cab solution: Ampeg 810e. Plenty of Ampegs moving used for about $500-800. Other fine brands of 8x10s are out there, they're just usually less common to find used. Ditch the crown.
It's where I'm at right now only I use a pedal board for my preamp stuff... the headroom is the most i've ever had w/ the GK... even beats my SVT-IIpro.
