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Which 810?

#21
The sensitivity specs will give you a very good indication of which cab will be the loudest, given your wattage. The higher the sensitivity, the louder the cab.

Your EQ could be using up a huge amount of power for the lower frequencies that may not be audible/noticable to the audience. Mids will tend to cut a bit better, but use them sparingly or it could be Honk City.
 
#24
what type of preamp are you using with your poweramp?
i've had lots of experience with preamp with a seperate poweramp and to be honest they have never been loud as i thought they were. whether it was 1500 bridged or 750 watts a side they never sounded as loud as i wanted.
and sometimes more watts doesn't mean more volume. i've found a mosfet powerstage to be louder than other poweramps.
it could also be your preamp. perhaps it is not putting out enough output. i found this happened when i was using a line 6 xt live pro, it was always softer than a demeter and eden navigator even at full gain and level.
 
#26
which 810?
Ampeg! I have the 810E and not one bad word to say about it. I have heard many good things about Bassoon also but have never personally tried one out so....
Really, you should find a music store and try out different cabs as different people like different tones. Best of luck to you!

-Timothy
 
#29
SWR Megoliath. With 1600 watts pumping through it you will need diapers to stand in front of it. I have used one for years and absolutely LOVE it. No really.... I do. Its surprisingly easy to snuggle with.

In all seriousness though, I have to agree with some of the other guys that think there might be something hooked up wrong, weak signal chain, etc.
 
#30
More speaker mass more air, you would need 5 18'' or 6 15" to move as much air as a single 8x10. More speaker surface will sound fuller and thicker. I use to use 2 8x10 back in the day (80's) yeah I am not 20 years old anymore. although I am pretty sure they had a lower wattage rating, they were old and from the 70's.They were sealed with no horns and was a awesome hard rock set up. I powered them with a Peavey Mega bass ss amp I believe was 500 watts and it was screaming loud and super punchy and was plenty enough with are guitar player with 2 full stacks. It don't matter if you have a 4ohm 15'' speaker cab that can handle a 1000 watts rms it will not be as loud as a 4ohm 800 watt rms 8x10 powered by a say 500 watt head @4ohms. Personally I don't want to lug that around anymore. All being said:My vote, Hartke vlx 8x10 paper cones sound good and are cheaper then Ampeg, I played out of a demo and it was on sale for 400.00, I almost bought it myself.
 
#31
Bassbasixx said:
More speaker mass more air, you would need 5 18'' or 6 15" to move as much air as a single 8x10. More speaker surface will sound fuller and thicker. I use to use 2 8x10 back in the day (80's) yeah I am not 20 years old anymore. although I am pretty sure they had a lower wattage rating, they were old and from the 70's.They were sealed with no horns and was a awesome hard rock set up. I powered them with a Peavey Mega bass ss amp I believe was 500 watts and it was screaming loud and super punchy and was plenty enough with are guitar player with 2 full stacks. It don't matter if you have a 4ohm 15'' speaker cab that can handle a 1000 watts rms it will not be as loud as a 4ohm 800 watt rms 8x10 powered by a say 500 watt head @4ohms. Personally I don't want to lug that around anymore. All being said:My vote, Hartke vlx 8x10 paper cones sound good and are cheaper then Ampeg, I played out of a demo and it was on sale for 400.00, I almost bought it myself.
Click to expand...



that is quite wrong reguarding the speaker surface area. you must have been thinking diameters when calculating, which will give you a very different answer.

i calculated the speaker area of 8 http://www.eminence.com/guitar_speaker_detail.asp?model=BASSLITECA2010&speaker_size=10&SUB_CAT_ID=5 which are 10" speakers. and then found that you could get the same surface area with 3.4 http://www.eminence.com/guitar_speaker_detail.asp?model=BASSLITEC2515&speaker_size=15&SUB_CAT_ID=5 15" speakers. granted not all speakers of the same size will have the same surface area, but they will be close enough. these were just random choices.

another thing to consider is xmax. larger speakers will tend to have a higher xmax (maximum excursion). using the same examples the 10" had 3.5mm xmax, and the 15" had 4.5mm.

doing a very rough calculation (multiplying the xmax by the surface area of the cone) we should be able to get an idea of the air that the speakers are pushing.

360.7cm^2 x .35cm = 126mL per 10" speaker

856 cm^2 x 0.45cm = 385 mL per 15" speaker


so 8 of the 10" speakers is 1008ml of air being pushed


that's the same as 2.6 15" speakers. that is nowhere near 6 15" speakers.


these things effect the low end mainly, and often the mid's effect the percieved volume much more than the low end, but mids are quite easy to get, its the low end that is difficult to dial in when you dont have enough power/cone surface x xmax


edit: just noticed that eminence has the peak displacement volume in their datasheet, so i didnt need to calculate it. my values were correct/close enough. their other 15" speaker had a higher xmax and could displace 411mL. eminence legends 10" speakers could displace around 200mL due to higher xmax values, but their sensitivity was around 92/93 (as opposed to 96/97), which is low, and a bad thing when you are looking at more volume. many 15" speakers will have higher xmax values than those of the eminence 15" speakers. the 15 (http://www.warehouseguitarspeakers.com/proddetail.php?prod=15bass) i have in my cab has an xmax of 7.5mm (compared to 4.7 for the higher eminence speaker) im sure there are others with higher ratings as well, but i dont know much about what is available.
 
#32
here's my 3 cents...

man, i can't think of a 4x10 and a 1x18 not being able to hang, but this set up may make you be all sub bass and top end with nothing in the middle that can cut/punch through.

i also liked the idea of 2 carvin (or ampeg) 810s. that's a lot of speaker coverage and it will reproduce sound that is punchy and audiable. i breifly had an swr henry 8x8 and you wouldn't think that 8" would go that low, but put 8 of them together and it works easily as good as 2x15. i firmly believe that more speakers (even smaller) are better than 2 or less big speakers.

the basson's are cool, but very very heavy in weight. watch out for hernias.

i once had 2 GK 410rhs (with a 1001rbII) that could decimate sound levels. maybe cast frame speakers might help you?

as other people said. there may be something in your chain or eq robbing your sound in volume or tone, is your pad switch on? try starting with just a chord into your head (and nothing else) and work your way through your chain (adding stuff) to see if anything is killing it. do this alone, and while your guitarists are playing. there could be an offending cable or even old strings.

is the music tuned down to lower? this can cause guitar and bass freq. to clash ("in justice for all" effect). therefore, where are your mids? if your guitarists are scooped? and you are too, there is a big hole in the sound. turn up your mids, decrease your low end, and you will peak through. what may sound "honky" when soloed may actually work when combined with 2 guitarists.
 
#33
origami said:
the basson's are cool, but very very heavy in weight. watch out for hernias.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that is what you get roadies for!!!!! lol. I don't mind lugging mine around, even with a custom case on it that adds another 90~ lbs or so, because I have amazing tone. Look at your sound level like this:

the more speakers you have, the more air you push
and the more air you push, the louder your cabinet will be.

Nothing is quite like a 8x10 up on stage behind you.
 
#34
Bassbasixx said:
More speaker mass more air, you would need 5 18'' or 6 15" to move as much air as a single 8x10. More speaker surface will sound fuller and thicker. I use to use 2 8x10 back in the day (80's) yeah I am not 20 years old anymore. although I am pretty sure they had a lower wattage rating, they were old and from the 70's.They were sealed with no horns and was a awesome hard rock set up. I powered them with a Peavey Mega bass ss amp I believe was 500 watts and it was screaming loud and super punchy and was plenty enough with are guitar player with 2 full stacks. It don't matter if you have a 4ohm 15'' speaker cab that can handle a 1000 watts rms it will not be as loud as a 4ohm 800 watt rms 8x10 powered by a say 500 watt head @4ohms. Personally I don't want to lug that around anymore. All being said:My vote, Hartke vlx 8x10 paper cones sound good and are cheaper then Ampeg, I played out of a demo and it was on sale for 400.00, I almost bought it myself.
Click to expand...

Can you honestly look at three 2x15's, and tell me that a single 810 has more speaker area?

. . . wow :scowl:
 
#35
i_got_a_mohawk said:
Can you honestly look at three 2x15's, and tell me that a single 810 has more speaker area?

. . . wow :scowl:
Click to expand...
I don't want to get in a pissing match but what i said in my post was it would take six 15'' speakers to push as much air as a single 8x10, I should of left out the word mass, further more three 2x15 cabs would equal six 15'' speakers. From what I found from my experience is a 4ohm 2x15 with around the same wattage rms will not cut through as much as a single 4ohm 8x10.I am no expert but right now I am using a 2x10 and a 1x12 750 watts rms total and it don't sound as loud or full to me as a 8x10 with around the same wattage. Further more I believe NO GREAT LOSS really wants to go with a single 8x10 instead of humping his 4x10 + 2x15 and it is not a power issue here, heck he has got a 1600 watt power amp.
 
#36
I dont know what cab's you have used, infact my 215 is actually louder than my 810. Not much, but def. louder. Quite simply a more sensitive cab. While that probably isnt the general concensus, doesnt mean that six 15" speakers are needed to equal an 810.

Simple fact of the matter is that six 15" speakers will push more than twice (almost three times infact) the amount of air that an 8x10 would.

I believe you are making the simple mistake that so many do, thinking that adding up all the individual speaker diameters gives you a speaker area. i.e. 8" x 10 = 80", which isnt the case at all.

And of course a 1x10 + 1x12 isnt going to sound as big as an 810, it is less than half the cone area.

I realise he is wanting to move to an 810 instead of humping gear about, however we are offering alternatives because he is having volume issues running 1600 watts into a 4x10 + 2x15 setup, hence why we are suggesting problems and ways around this as if that setup isnt cutting it. A single 810 isnt going to be louder than a 4x10 + 2x15, and the OP is wanting louder.

No Great Loss said:
To get the volume I need at shows I have to take the 4x10 and a 2x15. . . blah blah blah. . . more useless back story. . . We played a show a couple weekends ago and I thought I'd give my original stack another chance, but am told (by the guy hosting) that I need to be louder. So I've decided to go the route of the fridge.
Click to expand...

Again, this is from my experience using similar setups:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/i_got_a_mohawk/rig_new_75.jpg

(And I do realise that three 2x15's = six 15's, it was an attempted visual aid, because i, personally have never seen a single 6x 15 cab!)
 
#37
Well like I said I am no expert, the 8x10 cabs I used to have were old Ampeg 70's mid 70's svt I believe they were only 300 watts rms each I can't remember what 2x15 I played out of but I hated it by itself but thats just my opinion. I most likely would of liked it better with a 4x10 on top can't say, never tried that set up. Maybe it was the freq range of those cabs I liked so much very punchy cut like a knife and would blow the hair back on your head, or maybe because they were sealed I have came to the conclusion ported cabs are a little loose compared to sealed but have more low end, but back then we all tuned 440 most of the time once in a while to 435 and I never had any problems. remember this is just my opinion with the set ups I have used in the past.
 
#40
Wow, that is a lot of replies and opinions, which is what I wanted. I'm not one to speak poorly without encouragement, but since it is part of the problem, my 4x10 & 1x18 are Carvins. They just seem ineffecient, especially the 18. You say 4 10's and an 18 should keep up just fine, yeah, that's what I thought when I bought them. The 10's plus a dual 15 give me what I need with little power to spare, but yes, my goal is to just carry around just one cab.

I don't believe my line levels are too low. The last thing in my signal chain before my power amp is my compressor. It is set to keep my signal just below clipping. My EQ is set mid heavy--I don't like the sound as much, but it is necessary to cut through.

I know some people say that 1600 watts should be enough, but that's at peak capacity. In actuality the 10's only get 400 and the 18 gets 500. . . And I whole-heartedly agree that that should be more than enough power. That's why I want to know of a good, effecient cab that makes good use of every watt pumped into it and give me what I thought I was going to get the first time. Which takes us back to the original question of which one. Got opinions, or even better, first hand experience? Lay it on me.

-sam
 

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