Which 810?

[SC Bassboy]

I think the issue is split between the Crown amplifier and the efficiency of the Carvin cabs. I've used both xs and xls series Crown amps, and I was always pushing them up to clipping against a 2 raging 5150 half stacks and a strong drummer even through my Megoliath... seems they're underpowered for their ratings at least in the realm of bass applications...

Here's the simplicity: if you want to keep your rack gear, put it in front of a GK 1001RB-II. Get the GK used for around $500-600. Single cab solution: Ampeg 810e. Plenty of Ampegs moving used for about $500-800. Other fine brands of 8x10s are out there, they're just usually less common to find used. Ditch the crown.

It's where I'm at right now only I use a pedal board for my preamp stuff... the headroom is the most i've ever had w/ the GK... even beats my SVT-IIpro.

I will agree with this. The GK 2001RB I currently use is TOTALLY louder than the Crown XTi1000 I was using previously. It will blow you off the stage no problem. I didn't want to say anything about the Crown amp earlier, but since someone else seems to have the same opinion as me I will mention it.

 

[black_labb]

I did some quick adding up and found that it doesn't take 6 15" to push the same amount of air as an 810

It takes 5 15" to push around about the same as an 810

Hears the figures:
1x15" = 23.56 squared"
6x15" = 141.36 squared"
1x10" = 15.71 squared"
8x10" = 125.68 squared"

where the hell did you get those numbers? they are completely off. i put a link to the eminence datasheets where they give the manufacturers specs for these things. look on page 2, it points out that an 8x10 using some eminence driver pushes the same amount as 2.3 of one of eminence's 15" drivers. these things are in the manufacturers data sheets. where you got those numbers i dont know, but i know that you dont need 5 15" speakers to push the same amount of air as 8 10" speakers.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I have to agree.

It isnt even a simple area. Pi . (r.r)

15" = 176.71
10" = 78.54

2x15 = 353.42
8x10 = 628.32

Though that isnt entirely accurate as it is only the area of it as a circle, when you include the increased xmax and the depth of a 15" as a cone, compared to a 10" as a cone, the difference between an individual 10 and 15 gets higher. (as Black_labb stated already)

 

[Bassbasixx]

Look..it's not so much the speaker surface area. So an 810 has as much as 3 15's. The point is more in how those 810's transition, from low to highs, and back. My 810 pumps tons more volume, db, than my 2 15's ever thought of. The 2 15 cabs were actually rated 4-5 db more effecient, though. Theoretically, they should have blown the 810 out of the water. But they didn't, they just sounded like muddy drivers, sort of an undefined mess. Part of the perception of volume is the dynamics and the frequency transitions that you hear. A cab that can play from 38hz-7Khz is going to be perceived as louder than a cab that plays from 28hz-2K...at least in my and my bandmates experiences. For shear volume, the 2 Carvin 810 idea sounds pretty damn good to me... that'll throw a bass bitch slap down on anybody!

I agree 100% I tried a 2x15 stand alone and it was complete mud 10's cut with punch and 15's don't period now could be a good set up combined with 4x10, 6x10 8x10 ect even more so with bands that tune low 435 430 drop d drop c ect

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I'd have to disagree on a couple points there.

Never make assumptions about the tone of a cab, just by the speaker diameter.

My Peavey 215 has a much nicer high end and balance than my Marshall 810, in comparison it makes the Marshall sound muddy. Not saying the marhsall doesnt sound good, it just isnt what one would expect a side by side comparison with 10s and 15s to be like.

And with drop tunings, surely the way to go is using one cab in the capacity of a sub woofer and one to keep the upper range clear (stereo amp setup + crossover). That way you cut through with plenty punch, but keep the lows of the deep down tunings rumbling.

 

[georgestrings]

I agree 100% I tried a 2x15 stand alone and it was complete mud 10's cut with punch and 15's don't period now could be a good set up combined with 4x10, 6x10 8x10 ect even more so with bands that tune low 435 430 drop d drop c ect

As always, it depends on which 215 you're talking about - just like 810s, not all 215s sound the same... For example, my Peavey 215D-BW(Black Widow loaded) has far better high end definition than any Ampeg 810 I've ever played - and I've probably played through several hundred of them over the years...

Based on the mis-information you've posted, I'd guess that you haven't played through all that many different cabs - I've played backline provided gigs on gear from Ampeg, Eden, Aguilar, Mesa, G-K, Peavey, Marshall, Bag End - and a few more, besides that - and years ago, on rigs by Sunn and Acoustic - and my experiences don't match yours at all...



- georgestrings

 

[origami]

not to sidetrack, but i was wondering is the original poster was playing gigs where there was PA support? if so, could it be that the soundguy did not have the band mixed correctly? If you don't have PA support, every one needs to set their volume to the drums without egos. the audience will thank you when the sound is clear.

below i will go off on an a tangent because it sounds like your guitarists are set to 'overkill'. we've all seen that band where the guitar is way too loud, it causes the audience's ears to fatigue and the band to go deaf. we've also seen where the bass is too loud.. talas.

i mean, a good sound guy/system does wonders. my indie rock band has a guitarists with an ac-30 and a hot rod deville (all 2x12 30-60 watts), and i play 1 or 2 2x12 neo cabs. we set our volume to the drums onstage, let the monitors do their job and all is good. and we've played rooms that hold 1500-2000 and the guitars were fine on stage and in the room. look, tom morello plays with a half stack no matter the gi-normous size of his venues.

also, if it is an issue with guitars gone volume/EQ crazy, perhaps a knowlegable 3rd party (to avoid egos) should come in and mix the volume and EQ of the band so that the tones compliment each other, and have that person listen on stage and at 25 feet away. I can tell a good mix by if the band sounds good in the bathroom and at the bar.

maybe even invest in in-ears or maybe you should let an opening band play through your bass and guitar gear, and see it from the audience's perspective. it will open eyes and earsand fix those pesky guitar volume issues.

I mean, not to go back to the metallica thing, but listen to the "black album" (actually an album I don't dig) and see that Bob Rock and co. finally made Metallica sound like the instruments were in synch and working towards a sound not competing and canceling each other out. I would kill to have "Justice" remixed (poor Jason, he was possibly hazed by bad mixing and volume happy drums and guitar). My point is, don't be Jason.

-i can understand if having an 18" cab makes you think that you can't hear the bass onstage, because a cabinet like that "throws" the bass several yards in front of you, and is not the most directional. if really hearing yourself onstage is an issue. i agree, go with an 810.

 

[Bassbasixx]

I would like to hear some sound clips if I could of the 8x10 stand alone and a 2x15 stand alone with same ohm rating and close to the same watts rms with same head everything set flat, volume same, gain same, eq bypassed ect.. with a passive bass on both.

 

[Bassbasixx]

I'd have to disagree on a couple points there.

Never make assumptions about the tone of a cab, just by the speaker diameter.

My Peavey 215 has a much nicer high end and balance than my Marshall 810, in comparison it makes the Marshall sound muddy. Not saying the marhsall doesnt sound good, it just isnt what one would expect a side by side comparison with 10s and 15s to be like.

And with drop tunings, surely the way to go is using one cab in the capacity of a sub woofer and one to keep the upper range clear (stereo amp setup + crossover). That way you cut through with plenty punch, but keep the lows of the deep down tunings rumbling.

I was wondering if you ever compared your marshal 8x10 with any other brands? Ampeg, Hartke Gk SWR basson ect ect

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

As always, it depends on which 215 you're talking about - just like 810s, not all 215s sound the same... For example, my Peavey 215D-BW(Black Widow loaded) has far better high end definition than any Ampeg 810 I've ever played - and I've probably played through several hundred of them over the years...

Thats the same Peavey cab i've got. It's a beast!

I was wondering if you ever compared your marshal 8x10 with any other brands? Ampeg, Hartke Gk SWR basson ect ect

I'll see about getting some recordings for you.

Will go : Aria (with DiMarzios) to SVT-II to the cab and record them with a LDC from say 1m away.

Aria is the only half decent passive bass ive got, tend to stick to actives. Both cabs are 4 ohms. The 215 is rated at 400 watts RMS (IIRC), the 810 is rated at something odd like 640 watts. Neither cab has a tweeter, the 810 is sealed, the 215 is ported.

I have had the chance to compare to an Ampeg SVT810E. I prefered the tone of the Marshall. Very similar, however it doesnt have as much of a mid hump (still has a mid hump), so it sounds a bit flatter in comparison to the Ampeg. Which works well for me, get mids galore using Stingray -> SVT. Not to mention the marshall was just higher build quality all round.
I've also compared it to my peavey 410, and the sounds were quite different again. Couldnt describe the differences easily, the peavey is just fuller sounding, but the marshall works better in a band situation.
Ive not done a side by side comparison, but ive tried an Ashdown 810 (blue speakers), and it didnt do anything for me.

I've tried more 2x15's. A TE, Marshall, Ampeg, and a few others (I know ive tried more, but honestly cant remember what off hand), and they all sounded very different from each other.

 

[georgestrings]

Thats the same Peavey cab i've got. It's a beast!

I know - I was asking you about it before I bought mine - and it's a purchase that I've never regretted for a second...



- georgestrings

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I know - I was asking you about it before I bought mine - and it's a purchase that I've never regretted for a second...



- georgestrings

Sorry about forgetting (mind has gone to **** lately).

Glad you like it mate , I have to admit, I was skeptical too at first (but a 2x15 cab for £75, I couldnt complain!) As soon as I tried it, Blown away

 

[georgestrings]

Sorry about forgetting (mind has gone to **** lately).

Glad you like it mate , I have to admit, I was skeptical too at first (but a 2x15 cab for £75, I couldnt complain!) As soon as I tried it, Blown away

No doubt - I put a towel bar and tilt-back casters on mine, and had an expanded metal grill cut for it... I've lost track at how many offers I've had for it, to be honest - and it's brighter, more articulate, and has better lows than any Ampeg fridge I've ever played - not to mention kick ass low mids...


- georgestrings

 

[Bassbasixx]

I was wondering if you ever compared your marshal 8x10 with any other brands? Ampeg, Hartke Gk SWR basson ect ect

when you get the time and do some clips maybe you could do two more clips using your peavey ? with with 8x10 solo and the 2x15 solo every thing set the same marshal + Ampeg, Marshal + Peavey, peavey+ Ampeg, and peavey + Peavey ultimate shoot out, THAT WOULD BE REAL COOL. then we could do a pull and see what set up gets the popular vote sounds like fun, no cheating though EQ tweeking. boosting mids ect ect

 

[No Great Loss]

Well, it looks like Dave and I are going to get together and see what we can figure out. Though I'm still left wanting an 8x10, it has been bumped down lower on my wish list. Thanks for all the advice.

-sam

 

[joeydavidson]

I've found a Marshall 810 and am seriously thinking about getting it, it's ridiculously cheap.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

No doubt - I put a towel bar and tilt-back casters on mine, and had an expanded metal grill cut for it... I've lost track at how many offers I've had for it, to be honest - and it's brighter, more articulate, and has better lows than any Ampeg fridge I've ever played - not to mention kick ass low mids...


- georgestrings

Nice, I should pimp mine out, while it sounds awesome it does look a bit haggard!

when you get the time and do some clips maybe you could do two more clips using your peavey ? with with 8x10 solo and the 2x15 solo every thing set the same marshal + Ampeg, Marshal + Peavey, peavey+ Ampeg, and peavey + Peavey ultimate shoot out, THAT WOULD BE REAL COOL. then we could do a pull and see what set up gets the popular vote sounds like fun, no cheating though EQ tweeking. boosting mids ect ect

Using the peavey firebass? Maybe, it depends on when I get a new pc. The HDD that had most of my software (including recording software) died

Because the firebass and peavey 410 are being sold. They hardly get used anymore. So selling them, and putting the money towards a GB Shuttle 6.0 (which I could include in the comparison I guess)

I've found a Marshall 810 and am seriously thinking about getting it, it's ridiculously cheap.

What one is it? I'd go for it Most 810's tend to go for alot cheaper than the 'peg ones. People just like sticking to what they know, which means better deals for people like us who like experimenting a bit

 

[joeydavidson]

^ It's the Marshall MBC810 8X10 and is 1200 watts. I like the punch of my Mesa but it's voiced too midrangy for my liking, I'm thinking a larger cab would provide a bit more bottom and presence. Its 1/3 of the price of a 'peg.

 

[georgestrings]

Nice, I should pimp mine out, while it sounds awesome it does look a bit haggard!

Mine's going to get covered in bedliner sometime this summer - then, it'll really look good - besides being a solid, great sounding cab that's plenty loud... When I 1st got it, I didn't think I'd like it that much, but in a band setting, that 215 really gets the job done - especially for classic rock and blues... The 215D-BW is definitely a keeper, IMO - even though it's not worth as much as a typical Ampeg fridge, I wouldn't trade it for one - and it works far better *for me* than any fridge ever has...


After my experiences with this 215, I think I'll always keep one around - they seem to have the sound I'm looking for when doing the classic rock or blues thing - but a 610 setup works better for me while playing current rock or metal...



- georgestrings

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

^ It's the Marshall MBC810 8X10 and is 1200 watts. I like the punch of my Mesa but it's voiced too midrangy for my liking, I'm thinking a larger cab would provide a bit more bottom and presence. Its 1/3 of the price of a 'peg.

Ive not used that one, and it will sound alot different to the one I have used as its ported. Sorry


Georgestrings, you gotta post up some pictures of that bad boy when your done