Which bass better cut trough a mix?

[mbell75]

All this "P-bass, boost your mids, cut lows and set highs at 11 o'clock" -nonsense should have died by late-80´s, latest. It has no real value, because the matter is way more complicated.

Except there are guys like Mike Dirnt, Mark Hoppus and dozens of others who have made millions doing exactly that way more recently than the late 80s. Those settings are the sound of most modern rock, punk and pop/punk.

 

[mbell75]

I wish the phrase “cuts through the mix” was never introduced.

And to date I’ve not found a bass in good repair that I could bring to the game that wouldn’t do the trick with a little tweaking of both the instrument and my playing mechanics.

The tone is in one’s hands to a large degree. A bit of electromechanical instrument and amp manipulation will finish the job.

Try playing in a high volume punk or metal band with an Epiphone Viola bass or some hollow body single pickup bass and let us know how that works out for you This whole “it’s the player and not the bass” mentality is only true to an extent. That’s why we have so many different options with woods, pickups and electronics in basses. There is no one size fits all, do anything bass. You can’t just pick up any bass and play any type of music, at least not proficiently.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

You have the wrong guy to be asking, ask Jason Newsted.

Never heard him

After Flotsam and Jetsom

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Try playing in a high volume punk or metal band with an Epiphone Viola bass or some hollow body single pickup bass and let us know how that works out for you This whole “it’s the player and not the bass” mentality is only true to an extent. That’s why we have so many different options with woods, pickups and electronics in basses. There is no one size fits all, do anything bass. You can’t just pick up any bass and play any type of music, at least not proficiently.

Country on a Warwick Dolphin?
Punk or metal on a P,j,stingray, g&l, ebo, danelelectro, mosrite, Aria, Warwick etc....
How about metal on a 6 string?
Jazz on a bcrich mockingbird ?
Bah
Rock on a 8/12 string?
Slap on a fernandez?

Anything works anywhere if it works for the player

 

[bbh]

I don’t think it’s in the bass. It’s got to be in your head and hands.
I’ve always cut trough, where appropriate no mater what bass or rig as long as it’s my gear.
If FOH is primary, they usually don’t want me cutting through on stage..,

 

[mbell75]

Country on a Warwick Dolphin?
Punk or metal on a P,j,stingray, g&l, ebo, danelelectro, mosrite, Aria, Warwick etc....
How about metal on a 6 string?
Jazz on a bcrich mockingbird ?
Bah
Rock on a 8/12 string?
Slap on a fernandez?

Anything works anywhere if it works for the player

Not really. Ever tried gigging a hollow body bass with a single coil pickup in a loud band? I’d love to see someone do it on a regular basis and actually sound good. There is a very good reason you don’t see guys in metal and punk bands rocking Viola and Artcore basses.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Not really. Ever tried gigging a hollow body bass with a single coil pickup in a loud band? I’d love to see someone do it on a regular basis and actually sound good. There is a very good reason you don’t see guys in metal and punk bands rocking Viola and Artcore basses.

Besides the visuals and the frailty?
Yes, I rocked a short scale Hofner verythin in the 80's in a metal band.
i'm not alone: you narrow things too much by your prejudice.
Invalid Link Removed
How about Paul Barker?
(ministry)

Eagles of Death metal?

How about a small timer Jack Casady? (coffee house music I know)

Jay Bentley Bad Religion? pop music i think...
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Jonas Hellborg?


Ryan Martinie?



Carcass? live?



Have a nice day

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Oh Yeah : Country on a Dolphin: Yep its /\/\3.

 

[Nick Danger]

I'm the MD and recording engineer for our band, the bass cuts through the mix whenever I want it to.
For live playing my Schecter Baron-H Vintage cuts through the best.

 

[mbell75]

Besides the visuals and the frailty?
Yes, I rocked a short scale Hofner verythin in the 80's in a metal band.
i'm not alone: you narrow things too much by your prejudice.
Invalid Link Removed
How about Paul Barker?
(ministry)

Eagles of Death metal?

How about a small timer Jack Casady? (coffee house music I know)

Jay Bentley Bad Religion? pop music i think...
Invalid Link Removed


Jonas Hellborg?


Ryan Martinie?



Carcass? live?



Have a nice day

Dude, do you know the difference between posing with basses in photo opps because you are being paid or sticking one in your music video because it looks cool as opposed to playing that bass in live performances? Ive seen Bad Religion live 22 times and Ive only seen Jay use that Cassady a few times and its heavily modified for live use. Its stuffed with foam and has a P bass pickup shoved in it. Most the time he's using one of his many P basses. Ive seen EODM live a handful of times and Matt was either playing his P or PJ and Jennie plays her P. I have never seen any EODM bass player using a hollow body live. Try again man...

 

[kalle74]

Except there are guys like Mike Dirnt, Mark Hoppus and dozens of others who have made millions doing exactly that way more recently than the late 80s. Those settings are the sound of most modern rock, punk and pop/punk.

You missed the point of my post completely.

 

[fhm555]

The phrase "cut through the mix" is perhaps the wrong description to use. You don't want to dominate a mix because that doesn't really sound good to anyone except perhaps yourself.

"Sits nicely in the mix" would be a better one. I think both are trying to say the same thing. We've all heard songs where you can see that the bassist is playing something but you can't actually hear each note. It all sounds like a bit of a roar. That's typically what happens when you set your EQ like a smiley face - boost bass way up, boost treble way up, and cut the low and high mids. That EQ sounds great if you're playing a solo or practicing by yourself, but as soon as you start to play in a group, you disappear and sound like an indistinct roar.

That's because the kick drum owns that bass register you just tried to boost over him and the guitars and keys will kill you on the treble every time. They'll often also own the high-mids too. The low mids belong to you and a slight boost in them around 250Hz to 500Hz (I prefer ~250Hz) will give you that definition in the mix that we're really talking about. You'll hear the bass and every note it plays.

Back in the 60's and early 70's we didn't even have one mid control, let along a low-mid and high-mid. And we liked to use 215 cabs back then too. Everything was a bit "wooly" back then. A perfect example of that is Hendrix All Along the Watchtower. Some of it is fine, but a lot of it is kind of a blur. You can hear the bass moving pretty well through most of the studio recording but you'll have a tough time picking out exactly which notes he's hitting when he's playing 3 or 4 notes in quick succession. Mostly it's an indistinct blur.

Listen to this old Hendrix recording and then listen to the one below it and you should immediately hear the difference as the original one just roars along. Then listen to the second one and notice how nicely it sits in the mix with good definition, even when he starts ripping out some really nice fills during the guitar solo:





With the EQ choices we have on our amps now, you can pretty easily adjust most basses to "sit nicely in the mix". You don't really want to be too "dominant" but you want to distinctly be heard.

So it is as i suspected, the bass is less a factor than EQ? I only ask because with few exceptions in my adult life, i’ve played some form if jazz bass but i’ve always been able to provide a sound those i was playing with or being recorded by, found acceptable. I was told early on if someone is complaining about the bass being too loud it’s usually too much mid boost, not volume, causing it and that us the extent of my knowledge of the function of EQ beyond adjusting it to where i like the sound coming from my speaker cabinets. And i was around for the 215 era and still have one, although these days it’s serving as a coffee table/footrest in wifey’s movie room.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Dude, do you know the difference between posing with basses in photo opps because you are being paid or sticking one in your music video because it looks cool as opposed to playing that bass in live performances? Ive seen Bad Religion live 22 times and Ive only seen Jay use that Cassady a few times and its heavily modified for live use. Its stuffed with foam and has a P bass pickup shoved in it. Most the time he's using one of his many P basses. Ive seen EODM live a handful of times and Matt was either playing his P or PJ and Jennie plays her P. I have never seen any EODM bass player using a hollow body live. Try again man...

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[mbell75]

And I guarantee you that’s also stuffed with foam. You don’t play a hollow body loaded with hot EMGs at that volume on a stage that big without massive feedback. It’s stuffed. Nice try though.

 

[mbell75]

You missed the point of my post completely.

What was your point then? You said the whole boost the mids, lower the bass and highs at 11 should have died before the late 80s. I pointed out that is the exact sound of modern rock, punk and pop/punk. Pretty sure your point was those settings aren’t good for anything, which is completely inaccurate.

 

[Chewy_B_i_T_s]

What does "cutting through the mix" mean to me?
Even if the electric guitarist's effects pedal has the bass boosted too much and the keyboardist hasn't learned to control his left hand, without cutting them out I can still make out my bass as separate and distinct through my monitor. Unlike some of my other basses, my Peavey Axcelerator does that for me.

 

[Erokker]

I gotta say that most basses, when EQed, will stand out well. However, some are inherently better than others. My Sadowsky Metro, American Elite P and Spector Euro 4LX all speak with authority in the mix. However, my current go-to are my 80s Peavey Foundations. Amazing presence in the mix, superb necks and, at an average of $200 per bass (my fav cost $125), all three cost 1/4 of the Sadowsky!

 

[kalle74]

What was your point then? You said the whole boost the mids, lower the bass and highs at 11 should have died before the late 80s. I pointed out that is the exact sound of modern rock, punk and pop/punk. Pretty sure your point was those settings aren’t good for anything, which is completely inaccurate.

What I was saying was stating *any bass model, amp setting and pedal configuration* an universal truth that applies to all situations is wrong, because everything is dependent on the context. Hence, my quotation marks. My example could have read "boost the bass +300db, lower the hi-mids and highs at 194 o'clock", and it still would not be an universal truth.

I never said those settings would not work on some system, with some player and correct context that supports the sound these settings get.

How can you tell "boost the mids, lower the bass and highs at 11" is the "exact sound of modern rock, punk and pop/punk". What player - player's touch and technique - bass - strings - pedals - amp - cab - context -combo are you referring to, that these settings absolutely work for, every time?

 

[mbell75]

How can you tell "boost the mids, lower the bass and highs at 11" is the "exact sound of modern rock, punk and pop/punk". What player - player's touch and technique - bass - strings - pedals - amp - cab - context -combo are you referring to, that these settings absolutely work for, every time?

You ever listen to isolated bass tracks? I specifically mentioned Dirnt and Hoppus but could list dozens more playing modern rock, punk and pop/punk who EQ that way because thats (for the most part) how you get that "cutting" sound this whole thread is about.

 

[kalle74]

You ever listen to isolated bass tracks?

Rarely. Isolated sounds are important to me only when tracking them, to see if there's something funny about them (like noises and buzzes etc). Beyond that, it's all about the mix and the context.

"cutting" sound this whole thread is about.

See thread title: " Which bass better
cut trough a mix?"

What do you refer to as "cutting sound"? Upfront hi-mids and fresh roundwounds -kinda sound?

There's a million ways to make a sound "cut through" a mix, but all of it is context dependent, and the means getting there vary almost invariably. No set answers.