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Who agrees?

#141
stuntbass77 said:
My problem over the years with higher end basses is that they sound really good soloed, but not as good in the mix. Just listen to the guys on youtube trying to play jamerson on a warwick; just sound off to me. My other basses do have a place however, but I like playing the jazz the most. I didnt always feel this way so for others I understand. Sadowsky to me would be the exception; then again they are really in many ways just a fender the way it should be made.
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That is 100% not true. I know a hardcore band where the bassist used a Fodera to record with them and never I thought it sounded out of context. You don't like other basses than fender in bands because you're not used or have grown listening to music with new and/or different sounding basses. You think a warwick sounds off when played a jamerson song? Well that's because every time you heard a Jamerson song, it was a p bass that was playing. As for myself, I grew up listening to nu metal where almost every band's bassist had a Warwick. I now prefer the sound of a warwick in a mix over any other bass in the world. Crazy right? But, there are close seconds too ;).

Remember, it might does not sound right to you, but most of the people maybe will.
 
#143
Bryan R. Tyler said:
The electric bass is only about 60 years old. I'm sure the harpsichord was considered the ultimate sound of the keyboard instrument 60 years after it was created. Now, hundreds of years later, it sounds dated and doesn't fit in with quite a lot of music. There's no reason to think that the sound of the classic Fender basses won't share the same fate. They may last, they may not. I completely disagree with the "nothing beds a track like a Precision" comment as there are many songs I dig that would sound bad with that tone.
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+1 Fender is like Harley Davidson IMO. Comfy, familiar, and considered a must-have by many brand-conscious musicians and others in and around music, but not better than a large number of well-built instruments out there. I disagree completely with the notion that Fender basses constitute some kind of holy grail of bass tone.
 
#144
I agree for the most part. I think it is funny the way some bassissts go through every brand of bass and often times end up with a Fender where they stated from in the first place. I think a Fender precision or jazz is a necesary part of any bassissts gear- they are very tough and reliable and sound great while anchored forever in our favorite recordings.:bassist:
 
#147
Debased said:
"Rondo?" :confused:

I'm not "trolling." I'm offering an honest, on-topic answer to the OP's question. He didn't say "honk if you love Fender!" He asked for opinions.

I don't think Fenders have anything remotely resembling "beautiful depth," nor do I think that the "notes always shine through the mix." I find the typical Fender tone harmonically dead, dynamically choked-off and over-compressed, generic, muddy, and generally lackluster and uninteresting. It just sounds tired and dated to me.

I don't think SX basses are all that great either, but not only are they practically indistinguishable from Fender in tone and build quality, they actually sound better according to JimmyM's '79 Fender P vs '07 SX P [blind] audio shootout poll: TB'ers preferred the cheap import clone SX (239 votes) to the sacred cow Fender (108 votes), and that says a lot more about Fender's value, quality, and tone than I can.



Sadowsky and the other cloners have done their best to turn a pig's ear into a silk purse, but IMO, refining a dated, optimized-for-the-assembly-line design will never be more than a superficial makeover.

;)Invalid Link Removed;)

You still have the same quick-and-dirty scooped headstock with its reliance on afterthought stringtrees; the same crude minimally-contoured slab body (usually topped with the same cheap plastic facade); and the same bulky neck heel and lousy upper-register access. All of these design compromises and shortcuts were there for one reason: quick, cheap mass production. Carrying them over into $3K+ boutique instruments makes no sense beyond pandering to iconic fashion.



Thanks.

I like passive basses too, but passive isn't synonymous with Fender or "vintage." I have a passive neck-through fretless F-bass five-string with single-coils that sounds great. Unlike the Fenders I've played, it's ergonomic, lightweight, well-balanced, and has excellent range and upper register access, and the tone is articulate, extended, growly and organic, with none of the mud, noise, dead spots, or lack of sustain that plague Fenders.



Thanks, Spade. That's not the first time you've watched my back. :)
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you spit FIRE!!!, lol. You make another set of good points. My passive MTD Kingston Heir and Josh Helms singlecut 5 strings are both extended and very articulate (especially the Helms). I have heard Fenders that I liked, especially for reggae or neo soul music, but articulate and extended did not come to mind when listening to them.
The way your brake down the choices made in the design and production of Fender basses and their high end clones is scathingly honest, and makes a lot of sense. At least it does to me, and I own a Lakland DJ5, lol.
 
#148
BigOldHarry said:
Basses with new, radically different sounds come and go, recording engineers give them a chance and they either fade away or find a specific niche (the well known Ken Smith sounds leaps to mind)
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I just caught this post and thought I should point out that Ken Smith basses have been around for 30 years!! They are still very much relevant in alot of different genres.
 
#153
i agree, yet mentioning those three basses, the pick ups on these basses are mimiced and tweaked on a huge number of basses, pick up manufacturers will change the sound of the pick up to make it there own but not enough to completly "warp" the sound. these pick ups were the building blocks of electric bass so i think every bass player will like at least one of styles of pickup. the reason they work is because all contempory music is based on music from the 50's and and onward around the time leo made his first basses.
 
#154
flipper_gv said:
And to prove this affirmation:

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Absolutely awesome and amazing playing.

(1) not the kind of music I was talking about

(2) I do hear the instruments fighting each other in that mix. It is fatiguing to listen to on headphones and I wonder what that would sound like on something J-like. Maybe an LEJ-6 with 70s J pickup spacing. Imagine a marcus type tone on those lines.

Look guys don't take offense at anything I'm saying, I'm not slagging you or your hero, just suggesting an opening of the mind and ears and an abolition of ego. If it sounds good it is good, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water, and don't expect that money can buy you a place in the mix.

Out.
 
#156
Yeah, that would have totally sounded better if it was a Jazz and a Strat together- who needs flavor when you can have good ol' audio vanilla ;) :D j/k

Different tastes for different folks is all. I'd make the suggestion to also remember that having "Fender" on your headstock and a tone that occuies that classic space in the mix doesn't mean it will sound good or be the best thing for the music.
 
#157
Bryan R. Tyler said:
Yeah, that would have totally sounded better if it was a Jazz and a Strat together- who needs flavor when you can have good ol' audio vanilla ;) :D j/k

Different tastes for different folks is all. I'd make the suggestion to also remember that having "Fender" on your headstock and a tone that occuies that classic space in the mix doesn't mean it will sound good or be the best thing for the music.
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Not always, just usually ;) Flavor is great, unless the flavor in question is "nasty" :D (clearly just yanking your chain at this point).

And it has nothing to do with the headstock. Laklands, Sadowskys, and Nicky's trad sounding customs will all get there. Its about the basic tonal formula. If you've not had a smoking quality perfectly set up J-style bass ... you gotta try it with an open mind. Get above the kick, under the guitars, poking through under the cymbals ... ahhhh sonic space.
 
#158
As I mentioned, I have been lucky enough to try Sadowkys, Laklands, a Valenti I almost bought, modern and vintage Fenders, etc. Had the chance to play several Fenders with a band as well. I always have an open mind. It's just that my idea of what sounds best....is quite simply usually not that. Occupying that traditional space in the mix is often times the equivalent of audio vanilla to me. Lots of people like it, in some cases it's great, but quite often it's not what I want.
 
#159
WarriorJoe7 said:
It's ok for you to be thankful for them, but really it's Gibson and Fender who should be thankful for the opportunity to establish themselves first. It is fair to say that without them music would be different, but whatever pop music would be without them, would still be pop music and we would still be thanking someone for it. Even if Orville and Leo never did their thing, you would still be just as thanksful for music as you are now.

Honestly, I'd have to disagree and say that music probably wouldn't be much LESS but it could have been be much DIFFERENT.
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I still have a lot of this thread to read, but let me throw a couple cents in now"

1. Leo did not make the first electric guitar. Gibson, and others I'm sure, laughed and made jokes about the tele. But there was SOMEthing there that the MUSICIANS liked and they kept buying and playing them so much that Gibson and everybody else started making solidbody ELECTRIC guitars.

2. I really don't know for sure, but I doubt that fender made the first electric bass either. Engineers like 'em, but again, I have to say that if the MUSICIANS had not found something worthy in the J, and P they would not have continued to buy them and make music with them! Every book I have about Leo says that he gave musicians instruments to try and he listened to their feedback. I believe it! And I believe that they gave him GOOD advice!

Yeah, we've been listening to J's and P's forever, and we ARE used to it. But they DO sound good! And I believe that they do in part because Leo made them sound like what MUSICIANS wanted. And aside from a GOOD sound engineer, who knows sound better? Remember, Leo didn't play guitar or bass... and Hammond didn't play organ either. But obviously that is not a requirement for making a good instrument, and I would ALSO state that it's not a requirement that you be FIRST... but you do need some expertise AND some experts. ;)
 
#160
Are fender inovating or just churning out the same good idea. For example, the only major changes to their new line of basses I can see is lighter tuners and pole pieces being flush with the pickups. Whilst these changes are welcome they are not innovative.
 

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