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Who doesn't read music?

#241
StatesideRambler said:
What readers and nonreaders have in common, broadly speaking, is disdain for one another. Both are arrogant in their limited abilities.
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I would disagree that they both *necessarily* have similarly limited abilities (though they may). A nonreader can't read (or can't read well) *by definition*, but many, many good readers also are quite capable of playing well by ear and memorizing things.
 
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#242
It's funny (and, by funny, I mean sad) how many people that don't read disparage reading. How can you be proud of being illiterate? The same goes for education. I have a degree in music composition. It's astounding how many people call themselves musicians that don't know anything about music... even though they play it.

Admittedly, my reading isn't as fluid as it certainly could be (no real need to read here). But where I live (in the Oklahoma City area), nobody can read and nobody is educated. So, if you can read, they absolutely hate you and truly wish you were dead (yes... I've been told to go kill myself). So, I read in my room and don't play with anybody else.

I think this speaks to a much bigger problem with music... as an institution and as a product. Music is truly and measurably getting worse. I honestly believe that's because there are fewer and fewer musicians (people that actually understand music, not just people that bought an instrument) making music every day. That's why being a "musician" has such a stigma in polite society. Most people just believe you're going to buy a cheap instrument; learn a few notes, chords, or songs; and go out into the world proclaiming you're a musician. Honestly, it's just a bunch of participation trophy BS. It's like saying you can speak a foreign language and, when somebody says something, you can repeat it... but you still don't know what it means... you just like the way it sounds.

If you're going to call yourself a musician, you should probably know something about music. You don't have to be able to sight-read on the spot, but you should be able to at least get the general gist of a song. If you don't, it's never too late to learn. AND, you should never look down on somebody that has educated themselves. It took a lot of time, effort, and probably money.
 
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#243
Richard Lindsey said:
I would disagree that they both *necessarily* have similarly limited abilities (though they may). A nonreader can't read (or can't read well) *by definition*, but many, many good readers also are quite capable of playing well by ear and memorizing things.
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Not “necessarily”; my phrase was “broadly speaking.” I have known musicians who sit first chair in a respected symphony orchestra one night then sear the ears of club goers at Mr. Kelly’s [Chicago jazz club a long time ago] the next night. The former is a reading gig, the latter is chord charts (set aside at showtime). These are extraordinarily rare birds but they exist. There are many more who do both with considerable skill. Also common are those who do one or the other with great skill and badmouth their opposite numbers. I fail to understand the common human trait of belittling the things one chooses not to do.
 
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#245
Marlon Carbone said:
It's funny (and, by funny, I mean sad) how many people that don't read disparage reading. How can you be proud of being illiterate? The same goes for education. I have a degree in music composition. It's astounding how many people call themselves musicians that don't know anything about music... even though they play it.

Admittedly, my reading isn't as fluid as it certainly could be (no real need to read here). But where I live, nobody can read and nobody is educated. So, if you can read, they absolutely hate you and truly wish you were dead (yes... I've been told to go kill myself). So, I read in my room and don't play with anybody else.

I think this speaks to a much bigger problem with music... as an institution and as a product. Music is truly and measurably getting worse. I honestly believe that's because there are fewer and fewer musicians (people that actually understand music, not just people that bought an instrument) making music every day. That's why being a "musician" has such a stigma in polite society. Most people just believe you're going to buy a cheap instrument; learn a few notes, chords, or songs; and go out into the world proclaiming you're a musician. Honestly, it's just a bunch of participation trophy BS. It's like saying you can speak a foreign language and, when somebody says something, you can repeat it... but you still don't know what it means... you just like the way it sounds.

If you're going to call yourself a musician, you should probably know something about music. You don't have to be able to sight-read on the spot, but you should be able to at least get the general gist of a song. If you don't, it's never too late to learn. AND, you should never look down on somebody that has educated themselves. It took a lot of time, effort, and probably money.
Click to expand...

Holy cow! Where do you live?
 
#248
I’m kinda surprised this thread is still kicking around.

However, I’ve been thinking about how the poll might look, based on the multitude of responses I’ve read. Here are my thoughts:


Who doesn’t read music?

A. I don’t read music and anyone who can just doesn’t feel the music!

B. I can read music quite well and can’t understand why everyone can’t.

C. I don’t read music but I think it’s cool that some can.

D. People that sight read well are inherently uninterested in real music and possibly evil by nature.

E. Sometimes I read music and sometimes I do it all by ear. It’s solely dependent on the job I was hired for, but both are cool.

F. Carrots
 
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#249
I was a trumpet and baritone horn player when I was a kid in school but never learned to read very well, I could play by ear too well and usually knew the songs once or twice through, I used to march in the school band and regularly forgot my music, it freaked me out the first few times until I realized I didn't really need it. I wish I had applied myself though as it would definitely come in handy, I can still read somewhat and learned bass clef but not good enough to do on a gig.
 
#250
Marlon Carbone said:
I updated my post, but I live in the Oklahoma City area. Full of cliche Blues, Classic Rock, and Country cover bands. All of them playing the same exact 40-50 songs. The cliche Blues bands play in mostly empty bars. It's really sad. Almost no original bands at all.
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Sounds like they might believe it if you told them you forgot how to read music. Then they'd like you?
 
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#251
StatesideRambler said:
What readers and nonreaders have in common, broadly speaking, is disdain for one another. Both are arrogant in their limited abilities.
Click to expand...

I was going to post something similar earlier today.

Frankly I haven't seen as much arrogance/disdain from those who have some capacity to read compared to those that cannot read. By and large those who can read will generally also have a pretty good ear as well, so you are getting the best of both worlds there.

I've heard some pretty derpy statements come from non-readers in the past when it comes to talking about people who can read music.
 
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#254
Hasty said:
I’m kinda surprised this thread is still kicking around.

However, I’ve been thinking about how the poll might look, based on the multitude of responses I’ve read. Here are my thoughts:


Who doesn’t read music?

A. I don’t read music and anyone who can just doesn’t feel the music!

B. I can read music quite well and can’t understand why everyone can’t.

C. I don’t read music but I think it’s cool that some can.

D. People that sight read well are inherently uninterested in real music and possibly evil by nature.

E. Sometimes I read music and sometimes I do it all by ear. It’s solely dependent on the job I was hired for, but both are cool.

F. Carrots
Click to expand...
Not the poll I would have created. I just basically asked a question on who doesn't read music.
 
#255
I'm hoping that this thread isn't morphing into a reader vs. non reader thing. I was basically interested in how many of us read during gigs. I can read but I cannot sight read on a gig. I can read chord charts on gigs if needed. However, I prefer to learn by ear and memorize. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's not turn this thread into anything more than that, please.
 
#257
I played in blues bands and bar cover bands back going back to the 60s. Most of those tunes were on the radio or the records we had so I almost had them memorized before I played them. When I did have to deal with sheet music I could decode it very slowly. I quit in the mid 1980s for lots of reasons but decided to pick it up again a while back so I bought a used Fender. After a few years I found a Gypsy Swing band and really needed a UB. I always wanted to play one but never had the time or money for it. Once I took that step, learning to read well became part of it. I took some music theory classes at a local university and ended up playing in their big band. We play a lot of complex tunes I've never heard before, like Pentonsilic. My chart is 8 pages, that's 383 bars and I have 30 bars of rest. It's 12 minutes long, has 6 keys, 9 key changes, 4 meters, 5 meter changes, 4 tempos from 63 up to 208, and 4 tempo changes. Most of the chart has a written walking bass line and chord symbols so I can make my own but there are rhythmic sections where I have to play the ink along with the whole ensemble. We rehearse an hour and a half two days a week and had 2 months to learn this tune along with 11 others before we performed the first time. (Some of the sax players are classically trained and can read this tune straight off. I try not to envy.) I bought the conductor's score and followed it a few dozen times while I listened to the tune before I felt like I knew it well enough to make it through. I also made a spreadsheet of all the structures so I could visualize the form. I need three things to play this tune; knowing the theory and structure, having the sound of it in my head, and seeing the notes on the page. Ideally, I'd have it all memorized but that's not practical.
 
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#259
DWBass said:
I'm hoping that this thread isn't morphing into a reader vs. non reader thing. I was basically interested in how many of us read during gigs. I can read but I cannot sight read on a gig. I can read chord charts on gigs if needed. However, I prefer to learn by ear and memorize. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's not turn this thread into anything more than that, please.
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Fair enough. For me, it's been cyclical--or, rather, situational. For a whole 3 year stretch, I didn't once read on a gig, nor did I use a chart to learn any of the songs. For the last 2 years, I've been reading over 90% of the time. (That reflected the difference between backing a singer-songwriter and dealing with a large and constantly changing supply of complex Brazilian jazz tunes.)
 

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