Sight reading at 120 - 8th notes. Beyond that I have to work on the part ahead of time. I never listen to the records (or almost never). If the BL does there own take (feel) of the song its best not to become wedded to the part on the record. Prefer the chords & arrangement laid out and little else as it is the framework I require and then listening to the lead player for rhythmic and harmonic nuance. Listening to one another is crucial and in my experience that is often where it falls apart.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Who doesn't read music?
- Thread starter DWBass
- Start date
Sight reading at 120 - 8th notes. Beyond that I have to work on the part ahead of time. I never listen to the records (or almost never). If the BL does there own take (feel) of the song its best not to become wedded to the part on the record. Prefer the chords & arrangement laid out and little else as it is the framework I require and then listening to the lead player for rhythmic and harmonic nuance. Listening to one another is crucial and in my experience that is often where it falls apart.
I only say it's a hindrance if it's all they do. Reading has helped me learn difficult parts but for me, I trust my ears more when it comes to the feel of a song. So far, it's only that one song that sounds horrible. We play quite a few Tower Of Power and EW&F songs and they have them down pretty good. Move On Up seems to be a challenge though.
Certainly, that can never hurt. I almost always do so with an unfamiliar tune if I have time, even if it's in a musical "language" I know pretty well. Though I generally wouldn't bother if it's a straightahead take on a jazz standard; just give me the tempo and the key, and I got the feel.
Last edited:
Unfortunately many musicians only listen to a very narrow area of styles. Rockers , you try and play them a song by the Association and they don't get it. Play avant-garde jazz to a classical player and they point out that it harmonically makes no sense. Play a jazzer some Mozart and they complain it doesn't swing. All reveal a singular view of music.
I read if arriving at a gig with no rehearsal , but it is so important to get off the page if it is a regular gig. Outside of classical music, a chord chart with an arrangement is preferable as a bass player my job is to support the lead who rarely will play the record version (thank goodness for that) or the same way twice so being flexible to feel and note selection is important on the fly. Classical music, your on the page the whole time as its the nature of the music and the challenge is the dynamic markings - an undermanned bass section must play forte, even though marked piano etc... is a note staccato, legato, Reading is very important in that scenario. Playing pop music as classical though is to me a non starter. Players have inherent rhythmic nuance, playing to one's strength in those situations I believe to be more important.
Last edited:
I resisted learning to read for a long time because I worried it would ruin my feel. That was also a good excuse to avoid making the effort, but now that I'm working at it, I'm finding that it's true. I'm ok with that because I think it's just temporary. Once my reading reaches the point where I'm comfortable playing something I've never seen before, I think my intuitive sense of the music will be better than before.
Nope, not a reader. Never had the patience (or actual need) for it. With chord charts I might be able to cheat my way through some songs, if needed but I would turn the bass a bit down even with those.. 
Think about this. When a great actor gets a script for the first time, do you think they instantly know how the final performance is going to end up? Do you think they just memorise the words then go in front of the camera or on stage and busk the character? There is weeks of character development and interpretation goes on beforehand. Music is no different. Part of learning to read is learning to interpret and develop the part, ie using your fledgling musicianship. The advantage of having a score, just like a script, is you can't get the pitches and rhythms wrong...
Edit: just to clarify, these are words of encouragement - keep on keeping on, but know what you are aiming for...
Last edited:
Not an option for me. I'm always prepared. If I come across something difficult, I'll chart it before trying to wing it. Have yet to come across anything difficult to play for this band. All pop Top40 stuff.
Those who can "sight read" music notation and play it live (as well as people who can pick up a newspaper and read it out loud) are truly talented. Although I can read conventional and tab notation, I cannot do so as much as I would like to, that is, "sight read" such manuscripts.
Although most tab bass lines are lacking the accuracy in all the "note-for-note" details (compared to original performance recordings and conventional notation publications) and traditional notation (although more accurate) may require several printed pages, I use a bastardized form of writing my own "cheat sheets" constructed of the songs arrangements by measures (using traditional frameworks of repeats, da capos, etc), while identifying verses, chorus, bridge, refrain, intros, etc. Most of the song is noted by root chord name only (Ab sus 4 becomes simply Ab) with occasional notes values (i.e. quarter notes, dotted eighth notes, triplets, etc) included to specify rhythmic details... with the premise that one is familiar with the song beforehand. This works well for me when doing fill-in gigs.
Although most tab bass lines are lacking the accuracy in all the "note-for-note" details (compared to original performance recordings and conventional notation publications) and traditional notation (although more accurate) may require several printed pages, I use a bastardized form of writing my own "cheat sheets" constructed of the songs arrangements by measures (using traditional frameworks of repeats, da capos, etc), while identifying verses, chorus, bridge, refrain, intros, etc. Most of the song is noted by root chord name only (Ab sus 4 becomes simply Ab) with occasional notes values (i.e. quarter notes, dotted eighth notes, triplets, etc) included to specify rhythmic details... with the premise that one is familiar with the song beforehand. This works well for me when doing fill-in gigs.
Playing along to songs was my method of learning to physically play drums as a child. After that....I was able to reproduce what I heard only in my head skipping the reading part. I learned bass the same way,but much faster as I spent YEARS locking in with bass players, so switching to bass was a natural move. For all the drum beats I come up with...I can now reproduce the corresponding bass lines I hear in my head. I’ve never been in a band where anyone could read. I did a lot of recordings for people doing demos and was never told what to play. I guess if that were the case where they had it all written out I’d be in trouble not reading, but then I would not be interested in playing at all in that circumstance. I’m not in bands anymore. Now I just write quirky lyrics, do the vocals, bass, drums or whatever instrument and upload it to YouTube with Garage Band. It’s only me with 3 fictitious friends. Since I play all the parts...none of ‘us’ read as we are all on the same page. If you are going pro as a session guy...reading would be the way to go I suppose. Not a bad thing to learn something new. Pretty impressive watching someone play and flip through pages. There is a coolness factor to it. That’s something I don’t have.
Last edited:
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
What's nerdy about being able to walk in and nail a part first time?
Back when i used to play -reading music was like a 5 string bass.
I just considered it something other fancy, real bass players did -i just had no use for.
I got along watching Youtube videos and picking out the notes.
OF course i was admittedly a pretty bad bass player
I just considered it something other fancy, real bass players did -i just had no use for.
I got along watching Youtube videos and picking out the notes.
OF course i was admittedly a pretty bad bass player
I don't. I learned by putting the needle back on the record over and over. Now, 40 years later I just learn by ear. A lot of songs I know what the bass is doing just hearing it on the radio.
This has been a really interesting thread to read through. Not super surprising... but interesting.
Most non-readers seem to mainly play Top 40 type tunes, country, and a little of this and that and many place little value in reading and don’t seem to understand why others would need to read. A few seem to seriously question why anyone would feel any need for reading ability at all.
Most readers seem to play (or played at one time) Jazz big bands, theatre, classical, and session type stuff (curious the breakdown between electric bass, double bass, and doublers on this one to be honest). Many seem perplexed on why more people wouldn’t want to be able to read.
I’ve always been able to read, started at a very young age. However on bass I went years playing only by ear because I was playing rock/Top 40 type tunes. Those tunes were easier and faster to just learn by ear, I get that. However when I shifted to a different style of playing only ear was no longer an option (which I covered in an earlier post). Now I’m reading 75% of the time the rest is either chord charts or standards I play from memory.
Most of us that read also play by ear when the situation dictates, which I think some of the others forget. Heck I played a jazz duet gig last week where the piano player was calling tunes with the Nashville numbering system. We had started taking requests on Jazz standards that I hadn’t played before. He would call out the changes prior to starting the tune then I’d play bass lines around his melodies and we would trade out soloing. That was actually an awesome gig.
Anyway, I get why some people don’t read. That’s totally cool. However many that read have a good reason for doing it as well... but can usually do the other stuff too, they just don’t do it as often or you don’t notice they’re doing it because the music is in front of them.
I remember when I played Rhapsody in Blue (a 22 minute song) it was completely memorized, but I always had the music in front of me because there were so many measures of rest it was easier to look at my notes (e.g.trombones start playing here) on the music than count 80 measures of rest.
Most non-readers seem to mainly play Top 40 type tunes, country, and a little of this and that and many place little value in reading and don’t seem to understand why others would need to read. A few seem to seriously question why anyone would feel any need for reading ability at all.
Most readers seem to play (or played at one time) Jazz big bands, theatre, classical, and session type stuff (curious the breakdown between electric bass, double bass, and doublers on this one to be honest). Many seem perplexed on why more people wouldn’t want to be able to read.
I’ve always been able to read, started at a very young age. However on bass I went years playing only by ear because I was playing rock/Top 40 type tunes. Those tunes were easier and faster to just learn by ear, I get that. However when I shifted to a different style of playing only ear was no longer an option (which I covered in an earlier post). Now I’m reading 75% of the time the rest is either chord charts or standards I play from memory.
Most of us that read also play by ear when the situation dictates, which I think some of the others forget. Heck I played a jazz duet gig last week where the piano player was calling tunes with the Nashville numbering system. We had started taking requests on Jazz standards that I hadn’t played before. He would call out the changes prior to starting the tune then I’d play bass lines around his melodies and we would trade out soloing. That was actually an awesome gig.
Anyway, I get why some people don’t read. That’s totally cool. However many that read have a good reason for doing it as well... but can usually do the other stuff too, they just don’t do it as often or you don’t notice they’re doing it because the music is in front of them.
I remember when I played Rhapsody in Blue (a 22 minute song) it was completely memorized, but I always had the music in front of me because there were so many measures of rest it was easier to look at my notes (e.g.trombones start playing here) on the music than count 80 measures of rest.
I was in a progressive rock guitar type situation on and off for years with a guitar player who would “write” with me while I was playing drums. Lots of breaks, odd meters etc. He still to this day can’t read a single note of music. It was all done on the fly. We had tons of demos without a bass track until I learned how to play bass years later, then I laid bass tracks down to every single tune we ever did over that 15 year period but at THAT time I only played drums. I think you know when it’s “music” and when it is not. Most people who don’t play anything at all know when something makes no sense musically and when it does. They can’t read or play but “ know”. I think the non readers “ know” and play instinctively. This thread I agree....most interesting to learn everybody’s view points. It’s one of those things if you need it and want it...you will learn it. Simple as that. In my situation, I can reproduce what I hear through speakers, but since I am only interested in originals, I can reproduce what I hear in my HEAD. Folks who transcribe something are using their ear first and THEN writing it. If you read but no one else in your band does...you are going to have to use their method....ear. If you don’t read and everyone else DOES...you are in trouble. Reading also implies you are playing someone else’s work or else what is the point of reading? An analogy would be...although I understand equations for parabolic curves....I could not hit a baseball if my life depended on it and it follows a parabolic curve once it leaves the bat, so does the ball when it is pitched as soon as it leaves the pitchers hand, but most baseball players likely have no use for that information....and make millions without it and understand on the fly how to hit that ball every time. I admit....I did start learning to read and it came quite quickly, but I did not keep up with it as in my case...never needed it. Use it or lose it. The folks who can do both (by ear and on paper) have an added skill should the need arise. Never a bad thing to learn something extra, but if most folks don’t do it then the opportunity may not present itself as frequently as one would like. I remember a U2 documentary where Bono said: ” We had to put tape on the fretboard to know which notes to hit.” When you bubble like a volcano....none of the subject matter of this thread matters anymore. Same for the Beatles and when I went to Motown Studio in Detroit a couple years ago....the museum director said none of them used charts until 1972 when Motown moved to LA and tanked. 1959-1972.....every single Motown tune was done by ear. Every single one. Until 1972 when the writers came in ( non musicians but wrote music but could not play). Fascinating stuff.
Last edited:
