Who doesn't read music?

[logdrum]

The best way to learn even now is to practice etudes or even scales while looking at the sheet. Just like words which we recognize as shapes and then vocalize it our, written music is the same. And some can really read a book well and some sound like robots.

However polyrhythms and syncopation is really hard to put on paper and that is why many sight readers unless it is classical "do not groove' It is because they do not have the phase lock that a lot of modern music is based on. Also the ornamentation is also hard to put down. meaning try notating/transcribing Beyonce or Nina Simone.

Get the program midi bass or midi guitar. Start laying your bass lines by ear and then let the program notate it for you. In this way you learn the shapes

Having said that, I hate sight reading at this point in my life. I know my music theory pretty well though. I did not go to music school. Mostly self taught and before the internet. I was taught piano at a young age, so bass clef is no issue I still play Bb and Eb instruments (tenor and alto sax) and know North and south Indian classical music

 

[byacey]

I wish I could but I guess I'm ok without it. My 16 year old daughter has taken piano lessons since she was around 10. She can play almost any piece of music (within reason) put in front of her but has no idea how to listen to her favorite songs and play them. It's like there's some kind of disconnect. She doesn't particularly enjoy playing at all, she doesn't equate "playing" with playing....it's just stuff on paper that she does with her fingers. It truly saddens me.

This interesting. I've always felt that someone who just simply reads and plays the notes lacks feeling for the music. The person who plays by ear feels the music, and knows it inside out, and backwards. I feel notation is great when learning a tune, but once learned, shelve the sheets and play from your heart.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

The person who plays by ear feels the music, and knows it inside out, and backwards.

IME this is not necessarily true at all. It's quite possible to play by ear not very well at all... while not knowing any better. Learning by ear isn't the same as having good feel, and it doesn't necessarily confer good feel either. I've heard ear players who had all the feel of a concrete road barrier (or, to be kinder, had totally the wrong feel for a given piece), and readers who could break your heart with how expressively they play (eg, one magical concert I heard with the Cleveland Symphony). Feel isn't about how you get the notes into your head, it's about how well you learn the language and how well you get the music out your fingers. IOW, musicianship.

One thing that's often forgotten in these discussions is that no good musician seriously thinks that the written notes tell you everything about a piece of music. Everybody knows you have to "bring the notes to life," just as when you recognize the notes by ear. So to refer to just reading the notes and nothing else is kind of gmmicking the argument in a way, because that's not how good musicians do it or teach it. And no good musician militantly refuses ever to listen to music and relies *solely* on notes. The problem some folks are focusing on here isn't a problem with reading, it's a problem with musicianship.

 

[Williethedummy]

Musicianship and the quality of it ultimately comes down to listening to a sample. That is when you the listener can say “ This guy/girl got it or not.” There simply is no other way to know. Musicianship is either “ you got it or you don’t” with or without reading ability. Not a bad thing knowing how to read that’s for sure. I don’t do it but I could learn...but not necessary for my needs. Personal choice based on necessity I would say. Very interesting to see all the different perspectives on this topic. Happy New Year to all!

 

[SteveCS]

IME this is not necessarily true at all. It's quite possible to play by ear not very well at all... while not knowing any better. Learning by ear isn't the same as having good feel, and it doesn't necessarily confer good feel either. I've heard ear players who had all the feel of a concrete road barrier (or, to be kinder, had totally the wrong feel for a given piece), and readers who could break your heart with how expressively they play (eg, one magical concert I heard with the Cleveland Symphony). Feel isn't about how you get the notes into your head, it's about how well you learn the language and how well you get the music out your fingers. IOW, musicianship.

One thing that's often forgotten in these discussions is that no good musician seriously thinks that the written notes tell you everything about a piece of music. Everybody knows you have to "bring the notes to life," just as when you recognize the notes by ear. So to refer to just reading the notes and nothing else is kind of gmmicking the argument in a way, because that's not how good musicians do it or teach it. And no good musician militantly refuses ever to listen to music and relies *solely* on notes. The problem some folks are focusing on here isn't a problem with reading, it's a problem with musicianship.

QFT.

 

[Hasty]

One thing that's often forgotten in these discussions is that no good musician seriously thinks that the written notes tell you everything about a piece of music. Everybody knows you have to "bring the notes to life," just as when you recognize the notes by ear. So to refer to just reading the notes and nothing else is kind of gmmicking the argument in a way, because that's not how good musicians do it or teach it. And no good musician militantly refuses ever to listen to music and relies *solely* on notes. The problem some folks are focusing on here isn't a problem with reading, it's a problem with musicianship.

Richard, brilliant job of saying what I wanted to say but didn’t quite know how to. You are absolutely correct. Reading by an experienced musician can be a beautiful, expressive interpretation of what’s written or a flat mechanical reproduction by someone uncomfortable with the medium. It’s sort of like having your kid read you a Harry Potter book versus Jim Dale or Stephen Fry reading the same book. Not saying the kid does a bad job, but the average person will just read what’s on the page while an experienced narrator will bring the book to life.

 

[Ian Lewis]

Admittedly, I am a horrible music reader. I can read charts ok. In my main band, Brasswind, I'm the only member who is not reading music on gigs and it's funny many of them are amazed that I learned everything by ear and have it all memorized. Especially the subs!! They always ask me "You're not reading?" I tell them 'nope, got it all memorized!' They just shake their head! The band is comprised of mostly all musically educated members (subs as well), some who are music teachers/band directors/armed forces band members.

I sometimes feel out of place but the BL has never said anything because I nail everything and am always prepared.

Well done, but Do they never put up new songs?
Btw. If you’re a “horrible music reader”, you aren’t an OK chart reader. Charts (or dots) are music!

 

[byacey]

Richard, brilliant job of saying what I wanted to say but didn’t quite know how to. You are absolutely correct. Reading by an experienced musician can be a beautiful, expressive interpretation of what’s written or a flat mechanical reproduction by someone uncomfortable with the medium. It’s sort of like having your kid read you a Harry Potter book versus Jim Dale or Stephen Fry reading the same book. Not saying the kid does a bad job, but the average person will just read what’s on the page while an experienced narrator will bring the book to life.

Absolutely. In my previous post speaking about musicians that play by ear, I meant musicians that can actually play, not the hobbyist wannabees.

 

[Marlon Carbone]

Folks who transcribe something are using their ear first and THEN writing it. If you read but no one else in your band does...you are going to have to use their method....ear. If you don’t read and everyone else DOES...you are in trouble. Reading also implies you are playing someone else’s work or else what is the point of reading?

I think this is an oversimplification. I write music (in the truest sense... pen to paper) without using my ear first. I know what I want to hear and I write it out. Sometimes, I have an instrument in my hand to hear something first, then write it down... so I can accurately reproduce it later. But, there are times when it's totally in my head first. Most bands I've been in, I've been the only one reading. But, I have still written passages and pieces down when I want to get my head around something (not my ears). It's just another way to represent the music you hear (ears and head).

I have another analogy for you. If I stab you and rush you to the hospital... let's say I tell you exactly which organ I'm going to pierce and even give you enough alcohol/drugs so you're completely anesthetized.... Would you call me a surgeon? I believe the police would call it attempted murder. I think those that call themselves musicians without knowing anything about music are attempting to murder music. Actually, if you listen to the majority of music on the radio, they've done a pretty fine job of stabbing it repeatedly. I hold fast to the thought that the problem with music today is that precious few musicians are making it. It has become an industrial product where packaging is more important than the product itself.

 

[DWBass]

Well done, but Do they never put up new songs?
Btw. If you’re a “horrible music reader”, you aren’t an OK chart reader. Charts (or dots) are music!

We get new songs all the time. The charts I use have the chord names. No dots.

 

[Williethedummy]

I skip the paper part when I hear something in my head and just go for the instrument. My memory is such that writing it is not needed (for me). If I don’t have an instrument handy when a riff to be developed pops in my head....like while driving then I just wait until I get home etc. Agree on today’s music not being (to me at least) appealing. I’m not sure of your age or which decades you grew up in....I grew up late 70’s and early 80’s. Stuff I listened to was jazz, country and rock. Old country...not the stuff of today. Most of the groups I was into....I was surprised could not or did not read. Again....only a listen of the finished product is the proof of the pudding as far as hearing musicianship. You would not know (unless they told you ) “ Oh yeah...I can’t read music.” Not a bad thing to read. It’s something I can’t do. I know guys who can read...but since the rest of us never did...they had to do it by ear only. Jamming was an issue for them. Depends on your needs. I do my own tunes just for fun, no longer in bands. Little sometimes humorous story lines put to music....simple as that. As for a surgeon and stabbing....a surgeons intent is to treat and stabbings intent is to damage. The analogy you likely meant was “self taught surgeon” and that is a scary thought! No one would let a self taught surgeon without formal training touch them. Music though...not as important. Eye of the Beholder as to what classifies someone as a musician. Is it finished product or formal training regardless of finished product? For me...finished product but again...music is like food...best pizza you say and I say it’s not so good. The ONLY thing we will agree on is it’s temperature, diameter and it’s weight. How it tastes? We may disagree. With music...we can tell if a musician is in time or NOT and swinging or not, in tune or not and basically it ends there. Quality....again...nothing to measure it by. I know folks who gave up learning to play because they could not read or had a hard time reading. That’s a shame.

 

[DWBass]

I played with a keyboardist once, back in 2000-2001. Fabulous reader. Could play pretty much anything but had zero rhythm. Could not play anything with any sort of timing unless the drummer was playing. Had an ok ear but we argued something fierce regarding a particular section on the song Through The Fire by Chaka Khan. Until I brought him the sheet music for it did he realize he was wrong. Definitely useful for those who need it. Sometimes the ear is not enough.

 

[Pops OB]

There are great musicians who read music. There are great musicians who don’t read music. I think I’ll listen to some great music and leave the one-upsmanship to those who are stuck in that rut.

 

[EricMordus]

Not 1 note

 

[crobasster]

I read, because I play here .

 

[1st Bass]

Probably a limited analogy, but there are, I am told, between 6,500 and 7,000 (known) languages in the world, many of which have no written form.

We would never presume to say that, because none of them can read their mother tongue, none of them can speak it.

I would guess that most of the world’s cultures and languages also have a musical tradition of some sort. But if their spoken language has no written form, how likely would it be that their music does have one?

Are there, by that lack, no musicians? I don’t understand why there is such division over a particular skill. Is storytelling at least preserved by having a written language? Certainly, it is, but storytellers far predated writing. It seems to me that reading well is a valuable skill, but not invalidating other skills.

Just a thought. I read and write English fairly well, but read and write music quite poorly. I see that as a lack in my skill-set, but I don’t allow it to keep me from playing.

 

[dreamadream99]

cannot understand the animosity between readers and non readers.

Nor I. But it is there. I suppose it’s human nature to think “my way is better than your way”. Or maybe it’s envy.

There are two questions I’d love to ask each group:

To non-readers who don’t respect readers: “If you could start over again, would you learn to read from the beginning if it wouldnt hurt your ear playing?” Because answering no is admitting they prefer to handicap themselves.

To readers who don’t respect ear and feel players: “If you could start over again, would you work on ear training from the beginning if it wouldn’t hurt your reading ability”.

If either group answers “no,” they are revealing that they deliberately want to hobble their own musicianship.

Me? I got respect for anyone who can do something I can’t. Unless it’s murder. I don’t respect people who are good at murder.

 

[devnulljp]

I'm good with charts, and can read notation, albeit slowly, but I'm a terrible sight reader.
Got a little app on my ipad I used to learn to read bass clef, and it is working a treat as I'm getting better. Theatre gigs have really helped put the fire under my ass to learn too.

 

[G19Tony]

I’d like to learn theory, and read, but man, I just don’t get it. I’m at the point in my learning where it would be helpful. They say music is math, and I’m crappy at math.

 

[Durham52]

First up, I learned to read music at high school and can still read, though I'd never claim to be a sight reader anymore. I can work well enough to learn a piece, or to write down what I invent. Having said that I don't have an opinion about reading versus non reading, the degrees of variance between one and the other are too great, the needs of the players are so varied, as are the goals we all wish to achieve. I can't abide the "two legs bad, four legs good" mind set some people seem to need to adopt, neither can I see one extreme or the other as better or worse.

There are obviously benefits to being able to read and if your aim is to earn a living by playing in an orchestra, or doing session work, then it's a no brainer that reading is a necessity. But reading music isn't essential to making music that inspires, fills with joy, makes people happy, induces dancing, brings people together and gives great happiness and satisfaction to those who play it. Watch some youtube clips of street musicians, or people with crappy beat up instruments in some third world country playing the heck out of it and enjoying every second, that's what music is about and always has been. (At least as long as absolutists and snobs don't wring the life out of it...)

So, to read or not to read? Whatever works for you, there is no right or wrong.