Real life is what many of these folks seem to choke on.
And for the sake of this thread I won't respond to any of the usual troll posts.
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Who else here uses 12s and 15's?
- Thread starter jasonmasters
- Start date
Real life is what many of these folks seem to choke on.
And for the sake of this thread I won't respond to any of the usual troll posts.
well its funny.... to say that it mostly only has to do with the speaker cabinet... wouldn't that mean that if a cab manufacturer sold two of the exact same cabs, one loaded with a 1x15 and one loaded with 2x12's they would sound exactly the same? Me no think so...
Sorry dude, I am not even going to try. Brad's magic 12/15 stack can defeat anything
reported.
Where have people said that the driver doesn't matter? Any links?
I don't see why they would say that, although they are right about the cab design having a big influence.
the first page of this thread.
user "NKUSigEp" says "But the truth is, the logic that speaker size is the only factor or even the biggest factor in audio reproduction has become obsolete. What the speaker is constructed of and cabinet design account for almost all of its acoustic properties. And it seems like everyone except one (we all know who) is manipulating those to their advantage."
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Since you asked...
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8466023&postcount=178
You will have to read it in context. There's plenty more.
Thanks guys.
I don't think that I, or NKUSigEp were saying that driver design does not have an impact on tone - as suggested by jasonmasters. We were, however, both saying that driver size is not important. I think that's a perfectly reasonable statement.
There are other variables in driver design that are important and with regards to Brad's 'challenge'))to make a 10" driver the same as the one in his Bag End. I think that is not possible, because changing the driver size would necessitate fiddling with all the variables to make them identical to the other driver. This is probably impossible in practice.
edit: I suppose it's worth mentioning as a disclaimer that I'm talking about driver size in of itself.
I don't think that I, or NKUSigEp were saying that driver design does not have an impact on tone - as suggested by jasonmasters. We were, however, both saying that driver size is not important. I think that's a perfectly reasonable statement.
There are other variables in driver design that are important and with regards to Brad's 'challenge'
))to make a 10" driver the same as the one in his Bag End. I think that is not possible, because changing the driver size would necessitate fiddling with all the variables to make them identical to the other driver. This is probably impossible in practice.edit: I suppose it's worth mentioning as a disclaimer that I'm talking about driver size in of itself.
What you quoted does not confirm your previous statement.
People make far too big of a deal out of this and get all flamey about it. The simplest way to look at it is this:
There is no 10" tone, there is no 12" tone, there is no 15" tone, there is no 18" tone, etc. etc. etc.
Why do people get so bent out of shape that an Acme B1 can go super low and a Schroeder 15+L can not? Just examples, but my point remains valid.
1. Not saying driver size doesn't impact tone.
2. Driver size is not important.
That's what I got from the above. If tone is important (it is to many of us) and driver size could affect it, why would it be unimportant in a case where it did affect tone?
My point about my 15's all along has not been that 15's go lower, jump higher, whatever... it's been that they sound different while working in the same general frequency range.
That's what I'm seeing so far. I'm not anti-small drivers either. I do know that over the years there have been tones I'd associate with the 15" cabs I've had that I couldn't get anywhere near with 10's, 8's, 6's or 5's.
Can (otherwise like-designed) different sized drivers affect tone? I agree that there's no automatically mandated XX" driver sound, that doesn't change the fact that in certain deployments they can reproduce sound in a tonally different manner from other sized drivers.
I understand you're point and admittedly my post was unclear - see my disclaimer
I basically agree with what silky smoove just said.
I am not arguing agaisnt you, Brad, but against those who say that there is a universal 15" tone. I can understand that you have found cabs, the sound of which it is not possible to replicate. Please don't think I'm doubting your experiences.
Also, the speaker size not important thing is probably too simplistic, but it is generally right to not have rigid preconceptions about what a speaker of a certain size can do, i.e. a 15" cab will always give more lows than a 2x10" cab. This advice, again, is not aimed at you.
I basically agree with what silky smoove just said.
I am not arguing agaisnt you, Brad, but against those who say that there is a universal 15" tone. I can understand that you have found cabs, the sound of which it is not possible to replicate. Please don't think I'm doubting your experiences.
Also, the speaker size not important thing is probably too simplistic, but it is generally right to not have rigid preconceptions about what a speaker of a certain size can do, i.e. a 15" cab will always give more lows than a 2x10" cab. This advice, again, is not aimed at you.
You could even argue that bigger is simply better, as larger drivers couple better to the air regardless to total movement, and that gives a deeper sound. Past issues of 15's having slower response are now avoidable. Also, with today's EQ, larger drivers can reproduce high frequencies, too.
i have had 4 10's in the past, i have had a peavey 1516 cab which really was disappointment, but my favorite was an old 2 15 cab loaded with two 200 watt Altec Lansing drivers and it was one sweet sounding cab.
yesterday i played an outdoor show through a 8 by 8 cab from traynor and it licked for tone.
i currently am impressed with the 12's though.
personally, i really don't care too much about it.
yesterday i played an outdoor show through a 8 by 8 cab from traynor and it licked for tone.
i currently am impressed with the 12's though.
personally, i really don't care too much about it.
Certainly.
The better (IMO) way to state it would be: Regardless of driver size, different drivers will sound different in the same enclosure much like identical drivers will sound different in different enclosures.
Whether the emphasis is put on the driver or the enclosure makes no difference to me. I simply take exception to the thought process that goes "Driver diameter 'X' yields tone 'Y'."
Identical TS parameters in a box with the same alignment - I would bet one billion dollars that no one could tell the difference between a 12 and a 15 in a statistically significant number of trials, unless they were off-axis and using mid frequency tones. And that is all anyone is saying. Fs, Q values, displacement, Vas, and cabinet tuning frequency have way more to do with sound than the speaker size. Compare any pair of cabinets that sound different and those values will be noticeably different.
I understand you're point and admittedly my post was unclear - see my disclaimer
I basically agree with what silky smoove just said.
I am not arguing agaisnt you, Brad, but against those who say that there is a universal 15" tone. I can understand that you have found cabs, the sound of which it is not possible to replicate. Please don't think I'm doubting your experiences.
I agree with you. I don't think there's an universal 15" sound either... and as I said, the idea that driver size X automatically goes lower than Y is likely based on ignorance.
Just highlighting my point that there's more to sound reroduction than frequency response range. You didn't rule out tonal differences and that was also my point.
Agreed. It's not THE important thing. It can factor into the list of important things that determine a cab's output.
And as someone who's tried most driver sizes with varying results the only reason I settled in on the exact pieces (not sizes) I did was based on real world performance. I was very happy with my Euphonic Audio cabs... 2-10, 1-10 and 2-8 VL series. The idea that 15's go lower in the face of using them seems ill-advised at best. I also had a monster 410 cab and if it weighed 60 lb. less I might've been happy with it. Weight... another real world consideration... at least for a working musician
. I'm selling my 4x6 cab, not because it doesn't go low, it's actually pretty amazing... it just doesn't do it the way I prefer.One of the lamest sounding cabs I ever had was a large 1-15 made by a pretty well known company. My guess is that they just threw a 15 into their 410 box and figured it would work.
It didn't...except as a stage prop.
