Who here plays in MODES ??

[Whousedtoplay]

Want some "energetic discussion/s", some "clickbait" at our TB forum?
Write something about MODES.
Diatonic Modes come with the major scale.
If you play any notes along with a song, you play MODES.
Let's take a simple song with the following chord progression:

C - Dmin - G7 - C.

When you (as a bass player) play D with the Dmin(7) chord, you emphasize the Final (it's the root of a MODE), which is D.
In C major, the Dorian Mode - scale degree 2 - has D as it's FINAL.
If you play the note A with that Dmin(7) chord, you play the DOMINANT note (or tenor).
Dorian (final: Re; dominant: La)...
Modes as INVERSIONS of the major scale (which is a MODE itself.)

Nowadays, a lot of songs have BORROWED chords.
Borrowed chords are "borrowed" from other MODES.

 

[Acoustic356]

I have a modal view of the fretboard. It's how my ear is tuned. It also helps me learn songs faster and navigate "outside the box."

 

[Snarf]

This is what I was describing relative to folk music. Bluegrass players will tell you that "Little Maggie" is a modal tune. A musicologist might disagree. OK, I'm done here.

As the link below states: "Referring to "modal" tunes is basically an acknowledgment that the tune is in either mixolydian or dorian mode, or sometimes BOTH, which happens fairly often. So it's kind of a grab bag term. The lack of precision doesn't seem to bother folk musicians much... they are more likely to be bothered by people talking about Mixolydian and Dorian!!!! It's greek to them, after all!!!View attachment 4598611 This isn't just fiddlers.... banjo players and backup guitarists use the term too."

"Modal" fiddle tunes

"Modal" banjo tunes

That's fair, I can see that argument. And I'm reminded of the accompaniment styles of one of my favorite genres of music. Here's an absolutely ripping set from Battlefield Band:



The first half of the set is very modal, then there's a lot more V to I activity after about 3:00. The turnarounds near the end are just great. For a couple years growing up this was the only kind of music I listened to, as I was deep into learning the bagpipes (something I'm still deep into, and I play them professionally).

So, I can see both sides of this argument. And the Scottish trad style is so interesting, because I've heard these types of takes on these reels and jigs, and then you listen to a band like Capercaillie, the kinds of records they were making in the early-mid 90's were putting a new-age pop spin on the same tunes.

 

[SteveCS]

...
modes are the major scale laid out by position on the fret board
...

I guess a little more internet misinformatiin can't do too much harm.

 

[beatmachine pro]

literally.
by scale degree (ie position)

i hope that clears things up for you b Steve
i know theory can be confusing
this is the most basic explination of theory I could muster

thats why I am opposed to sementic arguements ,..they swap meanings of words in a theoretically correct way but its not arguement that is supported by Theory as taught

semanticaly playing A1 then A2 is an "interval" or theoretically its not because your playing the same note

so tell me if I play A then D what KEY would that be....the 1,4 of A or 1,5 of D
so power chords arent chords because there is no third (maj or min)
so fundimentally you need the 3rd to define a scale
once you define that scale then the modes are included....as defacto

this shows the modes laid out by position (1)-(7)

fyi I am just writing out my conception because its a good way to figure out what i
know, I quit bass lessons after i learnt modes ( because it a liabilty to be too good on bass)

as others have said modes are a just jumping off point I dont play jazz
but i do play chromatically ...
so thats every mode at once iguess lol

anyway i just enjoy meta-physics

 

[FrenchBassQC]

Because it depends on the project, I selected both "yes" and "sometimes." I'm currently more into blues/rock, and this is the "sometimes," but before to the epidemic COVID 19, I was working on projects that required more modes playing due to the nature of the compositions/arrangements.

 

[SteveCS]

...
Steve
i know theory can be confusing this is the most basic explination of theory I could muster
...

Sorry, you are aiming your pseudoscience at the wrong person.

Modes are not fingerboard maps, chord/scale correlators or other positional way-markers. They are the basis of melodic composition.

QUOTE="beatmachine pro, post: 26197064, member: 381974"]
...
my conception because its a good way to figure out what i know, I quit bass lessons after i learnt modes
...
[/QUOTE]

And herein lies the problem - your conception. Perhaps you should have carried on with the lessons, maybe with a music teacher, not a bass teacher?

 

[Passinwind]

I perfected the Hack Mode many years ago.

 

[Joshua Pickenpaugh]

Man, I have trouble playing in-TUNE, let alone in MODES.

Funniest thing I’ve read all week! Thanks for the lol!

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I perfected the Hack Mode many years ago.

When I moved from the Tonic - C major to Dmin7, I've hacked into the Dorian Mode.

 

[beatmachine pro]

k'='lol steve way to take the bait,..
yr def anounther arrogant american who insists their right but cant even
1 make an arguement
2 employ logic properly

first you call music theory pseudo science then make an assertion what it is
which has NO explination
"Modes are not fingerboard maps, chord/scale correlators or other positional way-markers. " technically true but...
Modes are conceptualized and used as fingerboard maps, chord/scale correlators or other positional way-markers(um what Key its in). They are the basis of Key changes they are NOT fundamental
They are the not the basis of melodic composition.
THERE ARE NO MODES IN ATONAL MUSIC

your a tro; Steve
obviously u didnt read my post
you just act better than me and dis me with no back up!?

 

[Passinwind]

When I moved from the Tonic - C major to Dmin7, I've hacked into the Dorian Mode.

When I move from the tonic to the gin I'm defintely going into Hack Mode.

 

[beatmachine pro]

so theres some confusion in the word position
its just a matter of playing the maj scale on one string
then each mode starts on the same fret as the note per scale degree

1CDEFGABC
2_DEFGABCD
3__EFGABCDE
4___FGABCDEF
5____GABCDEFG
6_____ABCDEFGA
7______BCDEFGAB

this directly correlates to the position on the fretboard
if we tune the E string to C frets 0,2,4,5,7,9,11,12 ARE the major sale
then each fret will correspond with its own mode

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

yr def anounther arrogant american

Funniest thing yet.
I love the material @SteveCS posts.
Pretty sure the guy is not American.

 

[CaptainWally]

Modes are a tonal center. C Ionian has the same notes as D Dorian. What sets the latter apart is that D is the tonal center, and this creates a different musical flavor/melody/feeling. So, I think you could say modes are fundamental to melodic composition, although you only need one mode to create a melody

Fingerings and interval charts are indeed useful to conceptualize and potentially execute a mode. But fingerings themselves are not modes, of course.

 

[Johnny StingRay]

I don’t consciously play modes, but if I’m in Bb major and I’m playing a Gm7 to a Cm7 then to a F7 then back to Bb and connecting them with scale notes, then I guess I’m playing through four modes. It is all the same Bb major scale. I guess thinking modes could get confusing, but I never could figure out why…..seems simple, but that’s just me.

 

[beatmachine pro]

IMO if someone cant explain something in a way you can understand thats not ON you....
being logical and comprehensible???
err,...error...does not compute!

so really I am just trying to describes modes in a way thats fundamental
so someone who doesnt know modes can understand
seems like a fail

face to face it would take about 15min to show someone modes in a way that they would understand

I will never remember the names of the modes; because they are all to difficult to remember so I simplify this by useing the number system
which is basically a simplification/substitution;... practical approach
real theory only happens in universities;.... abstract approach
so Steve is Correct

 

[Tom Kinter]

This is an engrossing thread and seems almost like a problem in epistemology: how one knows things.

Personally, I learned through the modes early on, beginning, I think, with someone informing me that 'Scarborough Fair', which was current at that time, involved the Dorian Mode (vs "regular minor" Aeolian), so I was then aware of those two, and then the key implications of both. And on... I confess I was susceptible to this approach having studied classic Latin & Greek in HS.

To me, "C Lydian" is a faster thought/idea than "C major seventh sharped eleventh" or, yet more abstractly, "four major seventh sharped eleventh in G". Now I realize that the notation for that is a lot briefer, but still aren't all those syllables happening thoughtwise/timewise in your head? Like, getting in the way maybe? Well, they do pile up in mine anyhow. So I like conceptualizing in modes. I have a visceral sense of the distinct minor spiciness of Phrygian or major sharpness of Lydian, or the dominant feel yet yearning toward of Mixolydian; the despair of Locrian. I just don't quite feel those same vibes when I think by the numbers. But that's just me. If you do it with the numbers, more power to you!

 

[SteveCS]

k'='lol steve way to take the bait,..
yr def anounther arrogant american who insists their right but cant even
1 make an arguement
2 employ logic properly

first you call music theory pseudo science then make an assertion what it is
which has NO explination
"Modes are not fingerboard maps, chord/scale correlators or other positional way-markers. " technically true but...
Modes are conceptualized and used as fingerboard maps, chord/scale correlators or other positional way-markers(um what Key its in). They are the basis of Key changes they are NOT fundamental
They are the not the basis of melodic composition.
THERE ARE NO MODES IN ATONAL MUSIC

your a tro; Steve
obviously u didnt read my post
you just act better than me and dis me with no back up!?

You really do have me wrong, don't you?

Firstly, I won't respond to the arrogant american bit, other than to say that I, and perhaps some others, found it quite revealing.

Secondly, I never said music theory was pseudoscience. If you had taken any time to read any of my other posts on the subject you would have realised this is something I would never say. But I think people deserve to have it presented with clarity and from a position of demonstrable understanding.

On the point of conceptualisation, if you want to use fingering patterns derived from scales/modes to conceptualise and visualise your fingerboard or map scale box shapes to fret numbers and chords within a key then great, and you are not the only person to do that. Visualisation can be helpful when learning the fingerboard, and plenty of people do it. But what you describe has nothing to do with modality in music. The fact that you say modes are the basis of key changes tells me that modality and purely melodic composition do not concern you. It also tells me that our perspectives and understandings of what modes are - roadmaps vs compositional devices - and the significance they have in music, are totally different.

 

[Groove Master]

Modes are the bass player best friend !! Simple. But you have to understand them and how to play them. Even simpler ;-)