I'd bet a lot of people, especially bassists, who "think" they're playing in modes actually are not. Except maybe when soloing. Maybe.
I know, party pooper. Sorry.
I know, party pooper. Sorry.
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Who here plays in MODES ??
- Thread starter mike buzzetti
- Start date
This is what I was describing relative to folk music. Bluegrass players will tell you that "Little Maggie" is a modal tune. A musicologist might disagree. OK, I'm done here.
As the link below states: "Referring to "modal" tunes is basically an acknowledgment that the tune is in either mixolydian or dorian mode, or sometimes BOTH, which happens fairly often. So it's kind of a grab bag term. The lack of precision doesn't seem to bother folk musicians much... they are more likely to be bothered by people talking about Mixolydian and Dorian!!!! It's greek to them, after all!!!
This isn't just fiddlers.... banjo players and backup guitarists use the term too."
"Modal" fiddle tunes
"Modal" banjo tunes
As the link below states: "Referring to "modal" tunes is basically an acknowledgment that the tune is in either mixolydian or dorian mode, or sometimes BOTH, which happens fairly often. So it's kind of a grab bag term. The lack of precision doesn't seem to bother folk musicians much... they are more likely to be bothered by people talking about Mixolydian and Dorian!!!! It's greek to them, after all!!!
"Modal" fiddle tunes
"Modal" banjo tunes
It might be worth mentioning that modes are about a tonal center, not a particular fingering.
Although the latter can help achieve the former.
Although the latter can help achieve the former.
My response had been no, but...as you’ve depicted them, yes, I play in modes. At this point in time scales, modes, etc., have become a part of muscle memory or fretboard shapes and patterns. Thanks for taking the time for the graphical display of all the modes. (I studied jazz theory about 12 years ago with a Berklee grad guitarist who finally got through the thick miasma of modes; the ah-hah moment was almost detectable on a seismograph!)
Absolutely. For example, if the guitars are playing a I-IV progression, I know I can play the Lydian mode over the IV chord if I want to stay in the key. Knowing I can play the #4 of the IV chord and it will not only sound cool but it will be in key is helpful compositionally.
I'm not saying I never deviate from the key in my bass lines. I just like to know when I'm doing it. I write my own music, and it tends to have chord progressions with a lot of key changes. If I can quickly use the bass line to ground the new key center, it can help it make more sense to the listener.
I'm not saying I never deviate from the key in my bass lines. I just like to know when I'm doing it. I write my own music, and it tends to have chord progressions with a lot of key changes. If I can quickly use the bass line to ground the new key center, it can help it make more sense to the listener.
Those fingerings are typical of the kind "box approach" where you want to start with your index finger on the tonic. But such fingerings are usually not really ergonomic. In particular, playing 2 successive major 2ds on one string, or crossing strings for a minor 2nd, requires you to stretch or shift more than what is necessary. It is much better to avoid playing two successive major 2nds on one string and to avoid crossing strings to play minor 2nds. There is no necessity to always start on the index and to always play 3 notes per strings. Sometimes it is more ergonomic to play 2 or 4 notes per string, and to shift to go wherever you need to to play the next note(s).
Furthermore, the "box approach" frequently lead people to ignore all the notes that are outside of the "box" (above and below).
If you know perfectly your fingerboard, on one hand, and the notes of your mode (or scale, or arpeggio), on the other hand, then you can visualize at once all notes available to you on the fingerboard for the music you want to play, and find good ergonomic fingerings, without limiting yourself to some predefined "box".
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I actually know I am not playing in the modes as intended. I use them in as an aid to navigate the chords of a particular key when I expand past 1-3-5's.
I play in chord tones, approach tones and voice leading trying my best to outline the harmony. There're modes in there somewhere.
I think a lot of people are suggesting that knowing theory kills creativity, but I couldn’t disagree more. I used to subscribe to that notion and it really slowed down my progress.
I’ve seen people say theory limits what you can play or conceive to play and then argue to stick to the root, which is a little ironic.
There is nothing you can play that can’t be contextualized by theory so knowing it will open up your fretboard and harmony a lot.
Learn everything you can. Learning will not stifle you in any way. Even though what I know “works for me” I still wanna stay open to learning new things all the time as that’s when my playing really gets better.
I can almost guarantee any bass player you hear on record knows hecka theory.
I’ve seen people say theory limits what you can play or conceive to play and then argue to stick to the root, which is a little ironic.
There is nothing you can play that can’t be contextualized by theory so knowing it will open up your fretboard and harmony a lot.
Learn everything you can. Learning will not stifle you in any way. Even though what I know “works for me” I still wanna stay open to learning new things all the time as that’s when my playing really gets better.
I can almost guarantee any bass player you hear on record knows hecka theory.
Yeah, that's ridiculous. Learning theory (some theory; I'm no Berklee grad) GREATLY expanded my creativity. And that's just one of the many benefits, which I covered in a previous (lengthy) post.
Sure, there are highly trained musicians who don't play well for a variety of reasons -- jazz licks in an AC/DC cover, lack of feel, etc. But fault lies with the player, and not the training. Fact is, it's more common for untrained musicians to have bad habits.
I'm not dissing untrained musicians as a whole: I've known great ones who didn't know theory. I'm just pushing back against the false notion that learning theory is somehow a bad thing.
Again, I'm far from a theory expert myself, but the theory I know helped me tremendously, and I'd be an even better musician if I knew more.
IMO its just a semantic arguement "everything is in a mode"(whats a substitution then!?)
everything is in a key is the the theory
its defacto that the chromatic scale is not a mode
modes are the major scale laid out by position on the fret board
play a major scale starting with open E(note1),then F# on the second fret(note2),then 4frt(G#)note3,A..note4,note(5B),6(C#),7(D#)
basically lay the major scale horizontally on the E string
then play the Emaj scale but start/end on whatever the note is per its position on the fretboard
so learning modes will give you the knowledge of the entire fretboard
in a way you can translate to muscle memory and even learn to visualize
its very foundational but hard to explain with words
...the guitarist plays a 7th chord so you play the 7th of the major scale flat (D instead of D#) CONGRATULATIONS...YOU JUST PLAYED A MODE
so what?
well if you are playing a walking blues bassline it just sounds alot better with the 7th flat, ....but if you are playing the 12 bar 1,4,5 and you flat the 7th for every chord in the progression
....you are using Modes ; but you are not playing Modaly
i hope that clears things up ; but you may be smarter if you concluded that math and ancient greek words is NOT the easiest or even best way to learn to PLAY
everything is in a key is the the theory
its defacto that the chromatic scale is not a mode
modes are the major scale laid out by position on the fret board
play a major scale starting with open E(note1),then F# on the second fret(note2),then 4frt(G#)note3,A..note4,note(5B),6(C#),7(D#)
basically lay the major scale horizontally on the E string
then play the Emaj scale but start/end on whatever the note is per its position on the fretboard
so learning modes will give you the knowledge of the entire fretboard
in a way you can translate to muscle memory and even learn to visualize
its very foundational but hard to explain with words
...the guitarist plays a 7th chord so you play the 7th of the major scale flat (D instead of D#) CONGRATULATIONS...YOU JUST PLAYED A MODE
so what?
well if you are playing a walking blues bassline it just sounds alot better with the 7th flat, ....but if you are playing the 12 bar 1,4,5 and you flat the 7th for every chord in the progression
....you are using Modes ; but you are not playing Modaly
i hope that clears things up ; but you may be smarter if you concluded that math and ancient greek words is NOT the easiest or even best way to learn to PLAY
I wager that you can navigate basic 12-bar blues in your sleep without sounding like you're doing lesson homework. So technically speaking, you're already rockin' mixolydian mode. Similar with Santana hits: a number of them are dorian.With enough practice you could play the more oddball modes in a musical way too. But yeah, that's a big ask for a cover band guy and I sure as hell am not fluent in them either.
