• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Who's a Genius?

#21
Carl Hillman said:
I disagree. His concept of the role of the bass in a piano trio (specifically w/Bill Evans and Paul Motian) was visionary. Before he came along, no one thought to use the bass as an equal melodic voice for extended lenghts the way he did.

If you've heard the "My Foolish Heart" rehearsal tape, you also know that he was integral in arranging and reharmonizing the tunes that trio played. His ear for harmony (if not actual voicings) was as good as Bill Evans and the pianist considered him a true collaborator in that respect.
Click to expand...

Yeah, not to press this, I'll just share why I did as I did. For me, LaFaro is in the second category for this reason of vision/innovation, etc. I left him out of the first - although I won't argue that he might also belong there, actually - because I don't have any knowledge concerning his actual depth of musical knowledge; and knowing he died young, I didn't want to claim he was more than I know he is. That being, the second.

Any view of all this is fine, I'm not arguing or pressing at all. I just connected him with the second definition in my mind, given his approach. Visionary? Heck yeah. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ralph Notoro
#22
Dr. Cheese said:
Anthony Jackson is a genius in my eyes because of his pioneering of extended range basses and the fact that he took Jamerson's approach probably as far as it can go.

Jaco was an obvious genius, nobody sounded like Jaco before Jaco, period. He was also a great composer.

I think Marcus Miller may be seen as a genius in the future because of his composition and production ability. Miller, is an incredible player, but he is a great stylist, not a technique groundbreaker.

Victor Wooten is a technique groundbreaker, but I don't think his techniques are useful enough for non-soloist bass playing for him to be in the same class as Jaco, Graham, or Jamerson.
Click to expand...


I agree with everything except Marcus's compositional skills -- which I find somewhat pedestrian.
 
#30
#31
Jamerson and Jaco def get the G title for EB.... If you had to parlay the notion of the instrument (in context of its role within a group situation), to an uninformed party, either one of those two would be untopable as the sole example.
 
#32
Ralph Notoro said:
I say McCartney because he was the first EB to construct parts in a compositional style.

I say Johnson because even though he wasn't the first to technically slap, he did it in a way that was far beyond Grahms modest riffs. To this day not too many people can do what he did. If there were no Louis Johnson, there'd be no Marcus Miller.

And Squire because he was the first EB to use a contrapunctal approach to the bass, making it its own melody. That's something that hadn't really existed since Bach. But he wasn't just copying the masters and applying it to rock (As did ELP to a large degree), he invented a whole new way of doing it. And with a sound never before used. Yeah, I's say that's genius.
Click to expand...

Disagree on the Johnson to Miller arc, agreed on Squire. I still marvel at what he was doing in the 1970's with Yes.

I hear way more Graham with Miller than anything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dr. Cheese
#33
You guys throw that word around way too much... It cheapens it. There are precious few actual musical geniuses. Perhaps one of the closest to it in the realm of bass playing is Les Claypool. I'd put Jaco in there too, though I'm not quite as familiar with his body of work. That is truly all I can think of... Throw the word genius around as much as you like, but what you are really saying is well practiced, influential, prolific, etc.
 
#34
  • Like
Reactions: Blue_Whistle88
#35
bass12 said:
Still a relatively narrow spectrum of music, in my opinion. And no, I wouldn't say there's genius in execution.
Click to expand...
there's bound to be differences in opinions here. i don't consider jack bruce or les claypool a genius, for instance. people will stick to their influences and i respect that.
 
Last edited:
#37
adi77 said:
there's bound to be differences in opinions here. i don't consider jack bruce a genius, for instance. people will stick to their influences and i respect that.
Click to expand...
I don't consider Jack Bruce a genius either. ;) For versatility to be a determining factor of genius I think the player would have to be genuinely versatile and have a firm command of a truly wide variety of styles - something I don't think that many players have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: adi77
#39
Carl Hillman said:
I disagree. His concept of the role of the bass in a piano trio (specifically w/Bill Evans and Paul Motian) was visionary. Before he came along, no one thought to use the bass as an equal melodic voice for extended lenghts the way he did.

If you've heard the "My Foolish Heart" rehearsal tape, you also know that he was integral in arranging and reharmonizing the tunes that trio played. His ear for harmony (if not actual voicings) was as good as Bill Evans and the pianist considered him a true collaborator in that respect.
Click to expand...
Not to diminish Scott LaFaro's contributions in any way, but I'd be careful with those "noone thought to use..". have you heard Oscar Pettiford, or did you hear the Jimmy Blanton/Duke Ellington duos?
 
  • Like
Reactions: hellofromming

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back